Ligier Sports Prototype crowned winner at Tire Rack Ultimate Track Car Challenge

So, what's the problem with the Ligier again??

I don't think that anyone said there was a problem. If Ferrari and Audi showed up with their fastest race cars, all the better. I was just saying that it's nice that there are some prizes for the guys who stand no chance of winning overall.

Participation trophies for everyone :)

Seriously, though. Of course classes are necessary on something like this, otherwise nobody would show up. And it's always fun to see how the little guys stack up to the purpose-built, top of the heap cars.

adam525i said:

" Toyota, in their interpretation of the rules, were able to convince Automobile Club de l'Ouest (ACO) officials that the car's fuel tank, normally empty when the car is scrutineered before the race, was allowable as a trunk space since it could, theoretically, hold a suitcase."

That is some fast talkin' on the part of Toyota. I can't believe the scrutineers bought it.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I guess the ACO never specified the car had to carry the suitcase and fuel at the same time.  Must have had their lawyers on speed dial for that one!

Keith Tanner said:

What is your personal definition of a CAR? The Ligier has AC :)

No tube chassis. 

Junghole said:

Keith Tanner said:

What is your personal definition of a CAR? The Ligier has AC :)

No tube chassis. 

So what do you call it? A quadracycle? It's a race car, but it's still a car.

Junghole said:

Keith Tanner said:

What is your personal definition of a CAR? The Ligier has AC :)

No tube chassis. 

I'm pretty sure that doesn't make it a boat.


So many rules that have nothing to do with what a car is...

Junghole said:

Keith Tanner said:

What is your personal definition of a CAR? The Ligier has AC :)

No tube chassis. 

It doesn't have a tube chassis. It's a carbon fibre monocoque, which is fundamentally not that much different than a unibody. It's hard to come up with a definition that separates it from an Alfa 4C if you're looking at chassis construction. The 4C has a carbon tub with aluminum subframes at each end. The Ligier has a carbon tub with subframes at each end, although I'm not 100% sure if the subframes are steel or aluminum.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Well, then it has to be able to carry a regulation sized suitcase!

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Expanding on that theme; many road going cars of the past were tube chassis cars, so where does one draw the line?

In reply to Tom1200 :

Arbitrarily, it would seem.

I think we're at the "I know it when I see it" level of definition here.

Cooter said:

Junghole said:

Keith Tanner said:

What is your personal definition of a CAR? The Ligier has AC :)

No tube chassis. 

I'm pretty sure that doesn't make it a boat.


So many rules that have nothing to do with what a car is...

So a Boeing 727 is also a car? Seriously though, what if I entered a biplane? It can have four wheels. I take off on the front straight, land on the front straight. And as long as I "don't exceed track limits" I'm completing a lap right? 
 

wait, why not just take a Miata and strap it to a helicopter? Even easier. 

In reply to Junghole :

No, Boeing 727's have six wheels.  They are aircraft. 

06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Junghole :

No, Boeing 727's have six wheels.  They are aircraft. 

 

They also don't carry a small number of people, which I think makes them a bus :)

In reply to Keith Tanner :

So now we are saying buses arent cars? Who put you people in charge of judging what is and isn't?

06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Junghole :

No, Boeing 727's have six wheels.  They are aircraft. 

 

check. 

Junghole said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

So now we are saying buses arent cars? Who put you people in charge of judging what is and isn't?

Hey, I'm just going by the written definition provided by Cooter :)

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Fair

This discussion reminds me of when the Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge (aka "let's see if your SEMA queen actually works") was introduced. All the cars have to be "street cars". But what constitutes a street car? It ended up being "it is if we say it is". A caged rally Miata is not a street car even though it may be actually road registered and driven thousands of miles on public roads. A SEMA refugee pro touring build that has armor all on the tread is a street car as long as it can make it over the speed bumps on the required surface street loop. It gets tricky to draw the line.

Keith Tanner said:

06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Junghole :

No, Boeing 727's have six wheels.  They are aircraft. 

 

They also don't carry a small number of people, which I think makes them a bus :)

That's a Boeing, not an Airbus :)

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Well, it's still on the ground, so it's not an airbus YET :) But soon it will be a Boeing airbus, just not an Airbus airbus. Or a car.

Road vehicle: A vehicle designed solely or principally for transporting persons, goods or animals by road.

Junghole said:

06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Junghole :

No, Boeing 727's have six wheels.  They are aircraft. 

 

check. 

They are even both monocoque construction, and have wings.. Touche' ..  

Junghole said wait, why not just take a Miata and strap it to a helicopter? Even easier. 

As long as it stayed on the road, you should be fine.

But I don't know how that would make it faster.