stroker
stroker PowerDork
12/1/23 4:52 p.m.

if you were doing one build, would you be better off farming out things requiring a long sheet metal brake/bead roller or are there some tasks where hand tools might suffice?  I'm also interested in things like riveting.   Any good books, perhaps something published by the EAA for aircraft construction?

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
12/1/23 5:07 p.m.

What are you trying to build?

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/1/23 6:14 p.m.

I always wanted a sheet brake, but they're really expensive for something that can be fudged with a 2x6 clamped to a table.  I figured I could build one with a few pieces of scrap steel and some hinges.

Following with interest.

L5wolvesf
L5wolvesf Dork
12/1/23 6:51 p.m.

If you have a lot of rivets to do you could pick up a decent used pneumatic gun on eBay for not a whole lot of coin.

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
12/1/23 6:53 p.m.

I have one of these and it has done a fair bit of work over the years.

It sheers, brakes and rolls up to 18 gauge tin. It is much happier with 20 gauge.

 

The tool I would not want to be without is the shrinker /stretcher set.  Oh...and the MIG welder. And the grinder, cut-off wheel, flapwheel,wire-wheel deathtool ( aka "Angle grinder" )

GeddesB
GeddesB GRM+ Memberand Reader
12/1/23 8:23 p.m.

Clecos and pliers....

 

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
12/2/23 5:54 a.m.

In reply to GeddesB :

Oddly enough, after years of wanting a cleco set, I hardly use it because it can not pull parts together tight enough to spot weld. I am back to using good old pan head self taping screws.

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L)
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/2/23 6:08 a.m.

Bead rollers can be had reasonably cheap.

I built a 4' brake for $100 in scrap. I'll try to locate  (or take) a picture.

Depending on what you are doing, I have another suggestion:

Stump.

stroker
stroker PowerDork
12/2/23 7:05 a.m.
NOHOME said:

What are you trying to build?

This guy really got my attention because I've been thinking of a "retro" F5000 for a very long time and he basically proved what I had in mind can be done.  He tried to make his a semi-monocoque but I'd be leaning more to a complete tube frame with sheet metal riveted to it.  I have zero fabrication experience and this is a "retirement project" which would start in about five years, so I've got time to assemble and gain a little bit of experience before then. 

Trent
Trent PowerDork
12/2/23 10:51 a.m.

I am going to recommend one of the most under appreciated hand tools out there. 

The humble "Aviation Snips"

Skip the yellow handled "straight cut" variety and just keep the red and green ones in close reach.  

i have big vertical bandsaws, plasma tables, pneumatic nibblers, electric shears, and a nice throatless Beverly shear and I am here to say that up to 18ga steel the aviation snip is as fast, more precise and much, much quieter than most of those choices. 

Wiss aren't as good as they once were, I hear Midwest make pretty great snips. There had been a lot of positive buzz about the new Milwaukee versions.

Watch Ron's video and take notes. A tiny investment can make most of the cuts anyone needs to make

 

GaryC83
GaryC83 Reader
12/2/23 2:00 p.m.

In reply to NOHOME :

They make higher tension clecos for that. However, that isn't their intended use. Panels shouldn't need to be forced into place and held in tension. I have hundreds and often wish for hundreds more. I've modified them. Made temporary exhaust fixtures out of them, make butt weld plates for them, and on and on. In their intended use... clecos are a wonderful thing. 

 

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
12/2/23 2:24 p.m.

In reply to Trent :

Same caveat with these as scissors for us left handed organisms. 

I cut a lot of sheet metal with the angle grinder.

Trent
Trent PowerDork
12/2/23 5:31 p.m.
NOHOME said:

In reply to Trent :

I cut a lot of sheet metal with the angle grinder.

I don't have enough hearing left to sacrifice it to an angle grinder laugh

I keep ear muffs near every machine but if I can do a job at 40 decibels I'm not going to consider the 100+ dB option

Carl Heideman
Carl Heideman
12/2/23 6:27 p.m.

I'm with Trent on the importance and utility of aviation snips. At Eclectic Motorworks, we have nearly every sheet metal tool from snips to grinders to shears to brakes to bead rollers to an English Wheel and a Pullmax. I too hate noise, dust, sparks and the other nasties that come with some tools. I can cut a straighter line, faster, with snips because I've practiced, built up experience, and use them whenever possible. 

To the original questions:

"would you be better off farming out things requiring a long sheet metal brake/bead roller or are there some tasks where hand tools might suffice?"

It depends, for many of these things there are less expensive workaround (like using angle iron and clamps in place of a brake), but for others outsourcing works well.  Even with all of our tools, we sometimes have a piece bent up on someone else's long brake or press brake for example.

"I'm also interested in things like riveting.   Any good books, perhaps something published by the EAA for aircraft construction?"

Several of Carrol Smith's books are very good as they bring common sense engineering into the fabrication. Ron Fornier's Metal Fabricator's Handbook and Sheet Metal Handbook are also very good. Both authors are gone now and the books are a little outdated, but very useful. Many similar books are out there, but most don't have the depth of these. Aircraft Spruce is a go-to place for plane builders and metal fabricators and lists a lot of books and specialty tools. 

Ron Covell is a friend of mine and he's done several workshops at Eclectic. He's one of the best teachers out there. He used to sell a lot of videos, but now he puts them up on YouTube. Long before he had power tools, he used basic tools like snips and hammers and dollies. He's made many videos like the one Trent posted that are worth a watch. He's a genius at solving a complicated problem with simple tools. 

I really like the Welding Tips and Tricks YouTube channel as well. Too many people try to debate MIG vs TIG while Jody just helps you get better with either.

To build your skills, I'd recommend starting with hand tools and try mild shaping with a hammer and dolly, making flanges with a hammerform, bending over straight edges and tubes, and maybe building one or more 1/12 scale model monocoques using welding and riveting (pop and hard). Use 20 gauge mild steel (not galvanized or otherwise treated)  or .050" 3003 aluminum for the models as it's easy to get and work with. Better yet, try both.

Have fun and keep us posted!

Apexcarver
Apexcarver MegaDork
12/2/23 6:47 p.m.

In reply to stroker :

The big thing I keep coming across with home monocoque construction is that scca and others are really leery of allowing it for competitive purposes. It seemes to pretty much be down to being a lot harder to verify a safely crashable structure vs tube chassis.

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 UltraDork
12/3/23 8:05 p.m.

After restoring the Airstream, I actively look for things to rivet. This is not a constructive addition here. Riveting is so satisfying, and I'd love to do a monocoque.  For my purposes, I'd love some solution for a sheet metal brake that doesn't take up a full parking space in my garage. 

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter)
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
12/3/23 8:31 p.m.

I have a couple of free plans for tools, if y'all are interested:

Sheet Metal Brake - you'll likely need some special tools to make this

Hydraulic Press

Bullseye Pick

Pipe Anvil - there is no magic with this one

I use a bead roller a lot.

I use the shrinker/stretcher a lot.

I don't use the English Wheel much, but I have it. When I can use it, I love having it.

I recently picked up a pneumatic planishing tool, but have not taken it out of the box yet.

Wiss snips for sure.

A shrinking disc for bodywork - freaking black magic and voodoo, that is!

 

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