alfadriver wrote:
poopshovel wrote:
Dude got caught and should do the proverbial "time." I don't see why that should include crushing the cars.
So what do you do with it? Bearing in mind that it is now fradulent. Can't really sell it, since it's a car made by a manufacturer, they probably won't re-issue a VIN for it. Since it's made by a company, it's unlikely that a state can make up a new VIN for it- laws that cover that year of car have VIN rules.
It's basically no longer legal tender. If Nissan isn't willing to stand behind it, then what?
If I understand correctly, the problem wasn't that he was trying to sell the cars, it was that he was trying to sell them as title-able/street legal. I've bought and sold many non-street legal vehicles that couldn't be titled. So why can't the state sell them rather than crush them? Jesus Christ, aren't these the people who are constantly saying they need more money?
irish44j wrote:
4cylndrfury wrote:
I mean, I guess we should all count our blessings...the local crime enforcement money pit...errr...division has enforced all laws regarding drug and violent crime! hooray!!! All the local schools must be at 100% of state grade standards, everyone has a job, and there must not be any gun or other felonious crime occurring if they have the time and resources available to tackle such a heinous criminal as your Brother in Law!
I'm pretty sure DOT investigators have nothing to do with stopping drug crime, violent crime, keeping guns off the street, etc.
It wasn't a FBI SWAT team going to catch automotive fraud. It was someone whose job it is to catch automotive fraud (a DOT investigator).
just sayin......
Im pretty sure its still govt-crime-stopping-people spending taxpayer dollars in an effort to "stop" crime - however, I really think there are much more important crimes to stop - crushing fancy pants sportscars is a public display of ballsackyness - its posturing on a grand scale.
assbag crusher guy said:
What we need right now is a clear message to the people of this country. This message must be read in every newspaper, heard on every radio, seen on every television... I want *everyone* to *remember*, why they *need* us!
Sky_Render wrote:
93EXCivic wrote:
I understand it getting destroyed due to the switched VIN numbers. I just still think it is bull crap we can't import vehicles we want into the US.
You can, if they're over 25 years old.
Problem is, by that time it would be pretty hard to find parts. R33 Skylines (my personal favorite generation) are getting close to 25 years old now, but I think finding parts for them would be pretty freaking hard!
Yeah I know about the 25 year rule but I meant newer.
93EXCivic wrote:
Sky_Render wrote:
93EXCivic wrote:
I understand it getting destroyed due to the switched VIN numbers. I just still think it is bull crap we can't import vehicles we want into the US.
You can, if they're over 25 years old.
Problem is, by that time it would be pretty hard to find parts. R33 Skylines (my personal favorite generation) are getting close to 25 years old now, but I think finding parts for them would be pretty freaking hard!
Yeah I know about the 25 year rule but I meant newer.
I think it should be lowered to 15 or even 10 years.
This is idiotic. Again, why do we stand by and allow this kind of nonsense? We organize and "demand" change for stupid crap that will never change and we know it. But laws at this level that could actually be changed by an outcry from local citizens - meh, we whine about it on the internet.
We get what we deserve.
fast_eddie_72 wrote:
This is idiotic. Again, why do we stand by and allow this kind of nonsense? We organize and "demand" change for stupid crap that will never change and we know it. But laws at this level that could actually be changed by an outcry from local citizens - meh, we whine about it on the internet.
We get what we deserve.
There was petition to lower the import age from 25 years to 10. I signed it but have you heard anything about stuff happening.
I signed a petition once and nothing happened, so I've given up.
poopshovel wrote:
alfadriver wrote:
poopshovel wrote:
Dude got caught and should do the proverbial "time." I don't see why that should include crushing the cars.
So what do you do with it? Bearing in mind that it is now fradulent. Can't really sell it, since it's a car made by a manufacturer, they probably won't re-issue a VIN for it. Since it's made by a company, it's unlikely that a state can make up a new VIN for it- laws that cover that year of car have VIN rules.
It's basically no longer legal tender. If Nissan isn't willing to stand behind it, then what?
If I understand correctly, the problem wasn't that he was trying to sell the cars, it was that he was trying to sell them as title-able/street legal. I've bought and sold many non-street legal vehicles that couldn't be titled. So why can't the state sell them rather than crush them? Jesus Christ, aren't these the people who are constantly saying they need more money?
Who, then, decides that the car is now legal? The state will probably ask Nissan if no other paperwork is provided that the car is genuine and legal. And it's likely that Nissan will not respond.
This is like you taking a poster of Picasso, forging a signature, and saying that it's legal. The car has value, sure. But it's real value is if it's genuine. If not that, the state may not be allowed to declare that it's legal without the proper paperwork that the owner is supposed to provide if the OEM isn't.
The problem with non-street legal cars example is that they are very much under the state radar, and since the car isn't going to pretend to drive on the road, it doesn't matter, much. Unless someone comes along and claims ownership, and if you don't have a title, whereas they do- then they get the car, you get to be part of a stolen car investigation. Granted- there are time periods that states do not require titles, but this case is not that time frame.
how the state gets any money of the sale is beyond me- it's going to be pennies for the work that they'll have to do to prove it's legal. Probably more of a money loss effort when you put all of the people involved in it to certifiy it as genuine.
poopshovel wrote:
If I understand correctly, the problem wasn't that he was trying to sell the cars, it was that he was trying to sell them as title-able/street legal. I've bought and sold many non-street legal vehicles that couldn't be titled. So why can't the state sell them rather than crush them? Jesus Christ, aren't these the people who are constantly saying they need more money?
He VIN-swapped plain shells. That's why they aren't title-able. Had they had their original VIN's there would be no issue with anything. Doesn't matter that they are Skyline's either, they could have been Yugo's. A VIN swap is illegal, period.
In reply to alfadriver:
So, they don't know for sure who owns the cars. May not even belong to the guy they took them from. So, just to be fair to everyone, they'll destroy them.
What if someone comes along with a title after they've been crushed? I'm not saying that will happen, just saying that's not a good reason to destroy cars. If the Picasso you speak of popped up as a stolen object in some criminal raid, would they say "well, best to burn it as we can't prove who owns it"?
fast_eddie_72 wrote:
In reply to alfadriver:
So, they don't know for sure who owns the cars. May not even belong to the guy they took them from. So, just to be fair to everyone, they'll destroy them.
What if someone comes along with a title after they've been crushed? I'm not saying that will happen, just saying that's not a good reason to destroy cars. If the Picasso you speak of popped up as a stolen object in some criminal raid, would they say "well, best to burn it as we can't prove who owns it"?
Since the car doen't have a VIN (the article says that it was removed), how can someone claim they have a title for it? Or if the VIN was swapped, how can one determine what is the authetic number? The reality is that your idea probably happens- with stolen cars. Which is why one has insurance, so that you get some re-imbersement for stolen property. Some cars may have the manufacturer step in to help prevent the car from being crushed- it it's significant enough.
The article even pointed out that the court considered exporting the cars for sale, but they could not find a way to do that. So the whole VIN issue is pretty deep on this product. Based on the troubles the courts had in trying to sell teh car overseas, it's pretty clear that Nissan doesn't see the car as one significant enough to step in and save.
As for the Picasso- someone might burn it, others would use the fake as an example of how not to get burnt- the Henry Ford showed some fake furniture that they bought as genuine. The problem with car is that the state provides ownership documents for the vehicle- if they got involved with art ownership, they may, indeed, destroy fakes. It would not be the first time that a country has purposely destroyed fake art.
93EXCivic wrote:
I understand it getting destroyed due to the switched VIN numbers. I just still think it is bull crap we can't import vehicles we want into the US.
It's totally legal to import any car you want. You just have to prove that it meets all of the legal requirements for cars being built of that year. The EPA and DOT webpages tell you how to do it.
alfadriver wrote:
93EXCivic wrote:
I understand it getting destroyed due to the switched VIN numbers. I just still think it is bull crap we can't import vehicles we want into the US.
It's totally legal to import any car you want. You just have to prove that it meets all of the legal requirements for cars being built of that year. The EPA and DOT webpages tell you how to do it.
Yeah but good luck doing that with any of track day special cars...
93EXCivic wrote:
alfadriver wrote:
93EXCivic wrote:
I understand it getting destroyed due to the switched VIN numbers. I just still think it is bull crap we can't import vehicles we want into the US.
It's totally legal to import any car you want. You just have to prove that it meets all of the legal requirements for cars being built of that year. The EPA and DOT webpages tell you how to do it.
Yeah but good luck doing that with any of track day special cars...
And? It's still allowed to do. You just have to prove it's legal or that it will only be used on a track.
alfadriver wrote:
93EXCivic wrote:
alfadriver wrote:
93EXCivic wrote:
I understand it getting destroyed due to the switched VIN numbers. I just still think it is bull crap we can't import vehicles we want into the US.
It's totally legal to import any car you want. You just have to prove that it meets all of the legal requirements for cars being built of that year. The EPA and DOT webpages tell you how to do it.
Yeah but good luck doing that with any of track day special cars...
And? It's still allowed to do. You just have to prove it's legal or that it will only be used on a track.
I am just saying I don't see why you have to do all that if the car is from someplace decent. It isn't like Japanese or European pollution standards are that much different then ours. The only reason is BS safety rules.
It's still just silly to destroy the cars. Can't drive them, can't title them? The car was in a movie that a lot of peopel watched. Not my bag, but significant enough. I'm sure the Petersen Automotive Museum would be happy to help out.
93EXCivic wrote:
I am just saying I don't see why you have to do all that if the car is from someplace decent. It isn't like Japanese or European pollution standards are that much different then ours. The only reason is BS safety rules.
Yes, they are. By quite a bit, still.
OEM's have the option and ability to certify whatever they want to, and the law give you the abilty to do exactly the same thing.
fast_eddie_72 wrote:
It's still just silly to destroy the cars. Can't drive them, can't title them? The car was in a movie that a lot of peopel watched. Not my bag, but significant enough. I'm sure the Petersen Automotive Museum would be happy to help out.
The article implied that they tried to do something with them. And was met by roadblocks. It implied that the cost effective solution was to crush them.
so be it.
The cost effective solution is to quit being a bunch of dicks with laws that are so retarded that otherwise reasonable people feel no moral tug when breaking them.
DILYSI Dave wrote:
The cost effective solution is to quit being a bunch of dicks with laws that are so retarded that otherwise reasonable people feel no moral tug when breaking them.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't swap VINs but I would have no problem doing various things to dodge around title laws (like using Alabama's abandoned vehicle process or "selling" cars to non-title states [not a problem for me since I am in AL]). This includes imported cars. I know of a '96 Renault driving around in TN with a title.
And I wouldn't have a problem titling a canoe. 
Even as an enthusiast, I'm not sure what the big deal is about crushing the car(s). Sure, it was in a popular movie, but hell, it was even the hero car, just a bit player. Okay, it's a pretty cool sports car, but so what? Many of those die at the hands of the owner every day.
Is crushing one car really depriving me of some cultural experience? If it was the only one of it's kind, yeah, maybe so. But it was just a production car with a bad paintjob. I won't miss it. If he was playing shady with the registration/VIN/whatever and got busted, great. I'll pull the handle.
93EXCivic wrote:
DILYSI Dave wrote:
The cost effective solution is to quit being a bunch of dicks with laws that are so retarded that otherwise reasonable people feel no moral tug when breaking them.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't swap VINs but I would have no problem doing various things to dodge around title laws (like using Alabama's abandoned vehicle process or "selling" cars to non-title states [not a problem for me since I am in AL]). This includes imported cars. I know of a '96 Renault driving around in TN with a title.
To Dave: Really? You feel no moral tug to VIN swapping? What if it was your stolen car getting the new VIN?
To Civic: I wouldn't say that. The guy in the article got busted for saying the same kind of stuff on the internet. Wouldn't want to read about you going to jail over asinine internet comments.
In reply to Javelin:
Never done it. But most of my cars I like to play with are old and so titles disappear over time. I wouldn't be doing anything illegal if I went thru the process of getting an abandoned vehicle title.
