lotus 7x
lotus 7x
alfadriver said:alfadriver said:Adrian_Thompson said:alfadriver said:In reply to Adrian_Thompson :
For NA motors up to 2.0l or boosted with some restrictions, DM. Yes, it appears that a Clubman is shorter (too short) for a 7, but the 7 arrangement does look like you can move the engine diagonally back some, helping weight distribution and moment of inertia, as well as freeing up space for longer front control arms.
I think you will find many of the 'Locost 7's out there in D Mod are already built like that with the engine set back and offset.
Seems like it, but the pictures I've seen of DM care seem like they are more traditional layouts than the EM cars. Thanks to Robbie, I've also done the mental layout of an X 1/9 DM car.
Looking through 2 years of championships- '13 didn't seem to have any with an offset engine, but 2017 clearly had 2.
My first post was edited with an example. The noted car/driver was the DM champion in 2013.
mazdeuce - Seth said:Adrian_Thompson said:
More like this please. I can see myself building something like this as a road car.
LEt's see what I can find
This was at Lagun Seca a few years ago.
The next batch are actually '750 Formula' cars I mentioned earlier. these are offshoots of the old Austin 7 specials and are generally similar to Clubmans cars but smaller. Note they are only allowed to use a single chock carb, hence one shot showing a Weber sidedraft with only one trumpet, that's because they are only using half of it. Note these things have a min weight of just over 800lb's wet minus driver.
Some very modern, somewhat modern, and classic Clubman racing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvUUrt-3WoA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BmiKoRuTZY
What are small and light automotive engines that people could put in this type of car over here? I said automotive engines, as following some kit car racing blogs in the UK bike engines never seem to live up to the hype with reliability.
Taken to the extreme, yes, a Mallock, and still front-engine
Adrian_Thompson said:What are small and light automotive engines that people could put in this type of car over here? I said automotive engines, as following some kit car racing blogs in the UK bike engines never seem to live up to the hype with reliability.
Hayabusa for on-track, but it depends if this is just for fun or if you want to be nationally-competitive. Probably a different answer of it's the latter.
Adrian_Thompson said:What are small and light automotive engines that people could put in this type of car over here? I said automotive engines, as following some kit car racing blogs in the UK bike engines never seem to live up to the hype with reliability.
If considered with the intention of designing a set of plans around, I think the problem is less finding suitable (durable, supported, common, and affordable, both now and into the foreseeable future) engine options, than it is also finding the same qualities in manual transmission/drivetrain options that will bolt up to it. That's one of the biggest advantages of of bike engines, even if reliability might still be a relative weakness.
If bike engines are a consideration...
I have a copy of this book. There's not exactly plans in here, but there's a lot of info to point you in the right direction.
...And I fully support the dumping of Adrian's photo files. Keep 'em coming!
The problem with building any car like these is the usual one we have, modern 4 cylinder engines don't bolt up to RWD transmissions without expensive adapter plates. For example, I have a trans and rear axle from my '73 Corolla that are nice light components, but no current engines bolt up to that trans that I'm aware of. If they did bolt up I'd look at the 1500 cc unit in my wife's Scion xB. A lightweight car with 110 HP would be a hoot, and a turbo or supercharger would make it even more entertaining.
In reply to DeadSkunk :
One thing about DM- the easy button- a 2000cc engine from an S2000. Or if you want a middie- the 2.0l high output engine from the Acura. Start with a good FWD engine for a mid layout or a good RWD layout- where add ons just make things better.
And one thing that makes DM kind of more interesting to me than EM- you *can* choose a turbo, but it has a restrictor. If look closely at two of the side engine 7's that you can find pictures for- one of them is running an S2000 motor, the other a turbo.
Which is to say, the HP war that is part of EM isn't nearly as much in DM. The key for DM is putting an engine together that has the best net power curve than the most of the most of the most. If you can make a 1300CC motor, boosted to the limit, better than an S2000, you can be competitive. Pretty interesting. And the natural limits allows cars to be closer to the weight limits thanks to the lesser engine outputs (as I do a mind analysis).
There is definitely a lot of NA vs FI discussion in DM. I believe there is agreement that it's cheaper to build a competitive forced induction motor than a naturally aspirated one. Peter Raymond is running one of Del Long's Lotus clones and is currently switching from NA to an Ecotec 1.4 litre forced induction motor. There is a restrictor for FI motors but you can still easily get 275 hp with it. I ran Stephen Brinkerhoffs DM Lotus 7 at Nationals and he has a built S2000 engine that is shoved way back. It was fast and fun but broke so I finished 3rd in Frank Weichold's Caterham.
Woody said:If bike engines are a consideration...
I have a copy of this book. There's not exactly plans in here, but there's a lot of info to point you in the right direction.
...And I fully support the dumping of Adrian's photo files. Keep 'em coming!
Hehe, I have that one too!
Ford makes their 3 cylinder engine with a standalone harness and there are RWD transmissions that bolt up to that.
I'm enthusiastic about both the pics and the further discussion of what might exist out there either as plans, or guidelines, or dimensions, whatever is known that would be useful in building one's own...
I didn't realize they were so prolific. Moreover, I've apparently confused myself, because the only one I really thought I knew of isn't a Mallock at all (Nic Mann's Mannic Beattie hillclimb car, with helicopter turbine-powered turbo), though a writeup notes its use of a "Mallock style" body... So I've got that excuse.
Clubman cars are quite rapid; I've seen a couple of Mallocks with 300hp rotary engines in them.
As for why no plans for Locosts set up like a clubman car I suspect it may be a case of single versus two seats.
On the lightweight motor front:
The A12 in my Datsun is 175lbs complete, output for the N/A version is 110whp, 56 series transmission is 38lbs. One of the 1200 guys in Australia runs a turbo A12 and it's putting out 200whp, it will run a full season in that trim. With the boost cranked up it's capable of 240whp.
A Nissan E15 is 10lbs lighter than the A series and the highest dyno number I've seen is 186 for a NA motor. There is a turbo version and I'm told those are capable of 250-300 but I don't know how long they last at that level. The A-series transmission will bolt up but you would need to use the larger 60 series transmission which weighs 54lbs.
Adrian, stop posting those phonographic images, I have a thing for clubman cars and several years ago I thought I had a line on a Mallock roller but alas it was not to be. I would love to run one at vintage races
Michael Mallock (Arthur's son) slicing through the field at Silverstone in histpric formula ford driving one of his father's cars. (Sadly, video quality goes bad about halfway through.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzAKCv1F_OQ
-chris r.
I hadn't realized there were so many of these engine offset cars out there. I love the concept but sadly for me, and I suspect the vast majority of people, the single seater aspect is the killer.
Now if we were to stretch the wheel base just a little and let the passenger straddle the spinning driveshaft that might be interesting.
A guy over on locostusa.com has a mallock inspired build, but it uses an offset mounted small block ford. The build might provide some insight to someone else who wants to build their own version.
intrepid said:Michael Mallock (Arthur's son) slicing through the field at Silverstone in histpric formula ford driving one of his father's cars. (Sadly, video quality goes bad about halfway through.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzAKCv1F_OQ
-chris r.
Video quality's fine, but it's of someone playing a cover of David Bowie's 'Starman'... Not bad, but wouldn't mind seeing the link you described, either!
Chesterfield said:A guy over on locostusa.com has a mallock inspired build, but it uses an offset mounted small block ford. The build might provide some insight to someone else who wants to build their own version.
I've followed that build for years. It's more like a 5/4 scale Mallock, it's huge!!
EDIT That's not meant to sound harsh. It's a brilliant build that's funny as hell too boot. I'd admire him and the 'SLOTUS' very much.
Ooops, my bad. Here is the correct link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1ePYJeuIhk&feature=youtu.be&t=5
-chris r.
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