Long Life Lapping Tire?

What is a good tire to use for general track lapping? This may seem like a commonly asked question, but I've been searching and searching and I don't feel that I've found a good answer. It doesn't have to be the fastest and I'm looking for something overall cost effective. I'd kind of prefer to stay away from slicks and R compounds (lack of skill, wish to reduce stress on car, etc), but I'm willing to listen to convincing arguments. :) I want something that can handle a number of heat cycles and will last on a track.

Does it make sense to go with an "extreme performance" street tire? Will they last longer on a track than a "max performance" or UHP tire? eg. Chunking is something I've experienced in the past.

The Star Spec ZI seemed to be the darling of Chumpcar for the longest time, but some suggested the RS-3 or XS might last longer under these conditions.

BFG Rivals ... I don't use them on my a-x car ... but the set we were running this past weekend at the 24hr at VIR, already had laps on them (I don't know how much) .... great grip and still didn't show much wear after 24hrs

What size are you looking for? I get spec Miata 205/50/15 Toyo RA1 take offs from ebay for around 200 a set. They are long lasting and cheap...

I ran 15 race weekends on 6 RA-1s when I had my SpecMiata. Wore like iron.

There's a reason the RA1 and Nitto NT01 are so popular. They just last and last and last. Friendly to drive, too.

I got 3 seasons of autox and hillclimbs out of a set of used ra1's that I bought here used, and the had went through 24 hours of lemons. Love the tire.

As an instructor I would suggest sticking with a street tire. While others praise the RA-1, I don't think it is too much of a compromise wet or dry. To get the most out of it, you have to be very comfortable with sliding the car (and having an instructor comfortable with that too!). I would suggest something like a Kumho XS or the current Bridgestone or Goodyear offering for SCCA ST classes (RE-11?/F1-GS3?).

If you're going to R-comps (for dry) get the BFG R1.

I'll suggest the NT-01's. I DD and autocrossed a set for a summer. Great crossover tire between a max street tire and true R comp tire. Awesome wear. Very predictable characteristics. I think the RA-1's are a similar if not identical compound.

I'll throw in another vote for RA1s. They last forever, they don't heat cycle out, and they're at their fastest right before they cord. NT01s are supposed to be very similar to RA1s in this regard, but I have no personal experience with them.

Pretty much all of the other DOT R compounds will suffer from heat cycles, often becoming hard and undesirable well before they're corded.

Personally I wouldn't run any street tire for dedicated track use, because they don't stand up to that kind of abuse like a tire that was really designed for it.

So RA1 > R888 for mixed duty?

Ra1s get my vote. The r1s are agood tire but do notyou give as much warning when they are going to let go.

Snrub wrote: What is a good tire to use for general track lapping? This may seem like a commonly asked question, but I've been searching and searching and I don't feel that I've found a good answer. It doesn't have to be the fastest and I'm looking for something overall cost effective. I'd kind of prefer to stay away from slicks and R compounds (lack of skill, wish to reduce stress on car, etc), but I'm willing to listen to convincing arguments. :) I want something that can handle a number of heat cycles and will last on a track.

Smart man. Let me add another characteristic you should consider - breakaway characteristics. Preferably communicative at the limit so you can feel the moment you're about to spin and try to do something about it.

Ultimate, huge amounts of grip is great on a race car but isn't necessarily the most fun compared to a tire that has less overall grip but is easy and fun to drive at the limit.

Snrub wrote: Does it make sense to go with an "extreme performance" street tire? Will they last longer on a track than a "max performance" or UHP tire? eg. Chunking is something I've experienced in the past. The Star Spec ZI seemed to be the darling of Chumpcar for the longest time, but some suggested the RS-3 or XS might last longer under these conditions.

Stick with the Extreme performance street tires or Max if you must. Both types will probably wear better and handle the heat cycles better than a UHP tire. The Star Specs are good. So are the RS3 and the RE11 etc.

Chunking is usually due to two things IME: 1. wrong tire for track duty 2. insufficient camber

What car are these going on?

The RA1 is pretty easy to drive on too but sounds like they may be overkill if I assume you don't have much track time under your belt.

Thanks for all of the responses. Keep the advice coming. :) The car is a Mazda RX-8 so the tire size would probably be 245/40/18 or 225/45/18.

Check out the ContiExtremeContact DWs. Mine took a beating at the hands of my E46, usually at Road America, and I was always shocked at how long they lasted. Very predictable tire behavior too and insane in the wet.

From all the responses you've seen, I think it shows there are several good choices. My own experience is with the BFG Rivals. We use them on our LeMons cars. They wear like iron and have a lot of grip. Predictable at the limit. They will get a bit greasy if pushed really hard for several laps, but I think that's true of any tire like these.

Keith Tanner wrote: There's a reason the RA1 and Nitto NT01 are so popular. They just last and last and last. Friendly to drive, too.

+juan

Cheap, and long lived. My preference goes to the Nitto for a track day tire because there is no shaving requred. If it rains... a full depth RA-1 is the best thing this side of a Hoosier rain tire.

Chunking is usually due to two things IME: 1. wrong tire for track duty 2. insufficient camber

I can't say those arent valid conclusions but they're a little opaque..

Chunking is from overheating, as far as i know. The smaller the tread block, the more likely it is to overheat as it doesnt transfer heat into the body of the tire as well as a larger tread block. In general, you'll notice the more performance-oriented a tire is, the larger the tread blocks, and vice versa. The outside of a tire heats up more than inside under a turning load unless you have perfect camber for every situation (no car does). That's why on sport tires the outside tread blocks tend to be larger than the inside ones.

So, yes, generally people chunk tires because they are running a tire that isnt designed for track conditions, and if you're running those tires you probably have camber issues too.

Vigo wrote:

Chunking is usually due to two things IME: 1. wrong tire for track duty 2. insufficient camber

I can't say those arent valid conclusions but they're a little opaque.. Chunking is from overheating, as far as i know. The smaller the tread block, the more likely it is to overheat as it doesnt transfer heat into the body of the tire as well as a larger tread block. In general, you'll notice the more performance-oriented a tire is, the larger the tread blocks, and vice versa. The outside of a tire heats up more than inside under a turning load unless you have perfect camber for every situation (no car does). That's why on sport tires the outside tread blocks tend to be larger than the inside ones. So, yes, generally people chunk tires because they are running a tire that isnt designed for track conditions, and if you're running those tires you probably have camber issues too.

You're also probably driving the car too damned hard. Its a track day, you're not supposed to be driving that hard.

but how do you win the PDX trophy if you don't drive hard ?

turboswede wrote:

Vigo wrote:

Chunking is usually due to two things IME: 1. wrong tire for track duty 2. insufficient camber

I can't say those arent valid conclusions but they're a little opaque.. Chunking is from overheating, as far as i know. The smaller the tread block, the more likely it is to overheat as it doesnt transfer heat into the body of the tire as well as a larger tread block. In general, you'll notice the more performance-oriented a tire is, the larger the tread blocks, and vice versa. The outside of a tire heats up more than inside under a turning load unless you have perfect camber for every situation (no car does). That's why on sport tires the outside tread blocks tend to be larger than the inside ones. So, yes, generally people chunk tires because they are running a tire that isnt designed for track conditions, and if you're running those tires you probably have camber issues too.

You're also probably driving the car too damned hard. Its a track day, you're not supposed to be driving that hard.

Building speed for TT and/or that's why I bought a throwaway car?

I run ra1s on the street, I like them alot. They rock in the rain too. Careful when it gets cold though.

Another question - shaving vs. not shaving. Which will result in longer life? I know the answer may vary by the type of tire.

In the 24 hours of the Nürburgring the Dizerra ZII held a substantial advantage over everything else.

if the Rivals .. don't shave ... they wear like iron and grip about as well as the Toyo R1R

I've run RA1's, Star Spec Z1's, Z2's, and Azenis.

RA1's are great, wear like iron. May be a bit overkill if you're just learning. Z1's were fantastic. Didn't get as greasy as the Azenis or Z2's. We were faster on Z2's than the other two street tires (280ZX LeMons car), but you need to spend time properly heat cycling the tires so they don't chunk and I felt they communicated better than the previous generation Z1's. We're getting Rivals for our next set. That appears to be the unicorn tire. Cheaper, better sizes (225x45x1t FTMFW), faster, and better wear.