Can't speak for VW, but Audi's come a long way in the past several years.
We have 2 Audi's bought new & now out of warranty. Had one warranty repair each (no CEL's or flatbeds involved), got nice loaners from the dealer and had painless service experiences. Both have been quick, solid, efficient & semi-sporty nice drivers.
Audi came in 3rd on 2014 Consumer Reports reliability survey too, so our experience is not an anomaly. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another.
I just saw a nice 2006 TDI Jetta with a for sale sign on it by my work...$3200!! Looks nice, but I am scared after threads like this!
Knowing the resale premium that those three little letters - TDI - command, I wouldn't buy that thing with your money. $2000 of that asking price is just because it says TDI on the back.
Haven't seen the car, of course, so I could be talking out my exhaust pipe... but I doubt it.
So non-TDI jettas in the 2006 range are $1200?! 
bgkast wrote: I just saw a nice 2006 TDI Jetta with a for sale sign on it by my work...$3200!! Looks nice, but I am scared after threads like this!
That's a deal and half. They usually go for much higher - assuming they are running and depending on mileage and condition.
Make sure the cam isn't wiped if you can!
If it runs it's a bargain. A quick check shows 2006 TDi Jettas going for $8-9k here in Houston.
I just walked over and looked at it. $3500 and looks very clean. The sign says "lots of miles, but well maintained". It's an automatic or I would say shut up and take my money. Still tempting...
Bobzilla wrote:dankspeed wrote: I have yet to meet a vw owner that doesn't have horror stories about there car. I have a coworker with a newer Passat wagon and the fuel pump went out. There was not a single fuel pump at any of the local vw dealers. It had to be ordered in. What dealer doesn't stock a fuel pump ?Just about every one that isn't selling domestics. I know we don't. I've sold 1 fuel pump in almost 10 years for a Honda. One. Uno. Single.
But it's a honda.of course you haven't.
bgkast wrote: I just saw a nice 2006 TDI Jetta with a for sale sign on it by my work...$3200!! Looks nice, but I am scared after threads like this!
VW-bashing has basically become a game on this forum to the point where I don't really take the bashers seriously anymore. Half of it is second hand "a friend of a friend of a coworker said..." bull-sh1t.
Bobzilla wrote: Pretty much any "major" japanese brand since the mid to late 90's. (Toyota, Hondar, Mitsu, Mazda). Have yet to run across someone with one of those major brands that has had an inexpensive ownership experience.
Me! I have basically no problems with any one Civics. Most expensive repair between three of them ('93 EX, '96 DX and '99 Si) has been a radiator for a whooping $60.
In reply to 93EXCivic:
Considering two of the 3 cars you listed are before my cutoff, yeah I'd believe you would have a cheap experience because that was when Honda could still build cars. Now.... jump those civics up to the 01-up and you will likely have a different experience. 
DaveEstey wrote: 50k miles of reliability isn't exactly setting the bar high, especially given 5 trips to the dealership in that time.
This.
Pet peeve of mine on car forums is when someone says "My insert make/model with mileage < 100k has been dead nuts reliable for my <5 years of ownership"
Everything should be reliable in for that period of time/mileage.
93EXCivic wrote: Me! I have basically no problems with any one Civics. Most expensive repair between three of them ('93 EX, '96 DX and '99 Si) has been a radiator for a whooping $60.
Conversely, my 1991 Integra required more expensive parts than my '03 Mk IV has over a similar age span (and less miles on the Acura). The HVAC failed terminally (blower motor and loss of freon), the LR caliper seized and the radiator failed. The door windows on the Intregra never really closed properly despite a number dealer attempts to fix them. All parts that are stil original and fully functional on the VW.
By my experience, the VW has been far more reliable and problem free than the Acura was.
ProDarwin wrote:DaveEstey wrote: 50k miles of reliability isn't exactly setting the bar high, especially given 5 trips to the dealership in that time.This. Pet peeve of mine on car forums is when someone says "My **insert make/model** with **mileage < 100k** has been dead nuts reliable for my **<5** years of ownership" Everything should be reliable in for that period of time/mileage.
+1. Unless you're looking at 150k miles with nothing but oil changes and tires, it ain't "dead nuts reliable".
People are not mentioning that they are expensive to maintain compared to the domestic or Japanese competition. If they were slightly more expensive or a little more expensive to maintain, VW could swing more customers to them, especially since they're the people's car, not the premium car.
At what point did VW reliability start to nose dive? My '71 van was always reliable (mostly 
)
In reply to Datsun1500:
Why would you compare Accord prices and not Civic?
Datsun1500 wrote:Mr_Clutch42 wrote: People are not mentioning that they are expensive to maintain compared to the domestic or Japanese competition. If they were slightly more expensive or a little more expensive to maintain, VW could swing more customers to them, especially since they're the people's car, not the premium car.How are they more? An oil change is an oil change, cost pretty much the same for most cars. I just did a quick comparison. I went on Rock Auto and looked at part prices for an 06 Jetta, 06 Accord, and 06 Focus. I picked common parts, and chose the ones in the middle, not the cheapest or most expensive. I grabbed common parts that wear out on every car. Here are the results. 2006 Jetta - Caliper (43) Rotor (36) Fuel Pump (112) Ign. Coil (40) Ball Joint (18) - 229 2006 Accord - Caliper (40) Rotor (23) Fuel Pump (118) Ign. Coil (40) Ball Joint (29) - 250 2006 Focus - Caliper (62) Rotor (22) Fuel Pump (103) Ign. Coil (50) Ball Joint (31) - 268
Well, with the accord you can remove $118 because the likelihood of a Honda actually needing a fuel pump is less likely than me winning the lotto, while getting struck by lightening hitting a hole in one.
Honda berkeleys a lot of E36 M3 up, but their fuel pumps just ain't one of them.
I think the better thing to do here is price the common failure parts on each car line and go from there. Like fuel pumps? Hondas and the Koreans never need them. Brake pads/wheel bearings? That would be more common for them but that may not be a common replacement for the Veedubs.
Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: I agree. What's the common failure on a 2009 VW Jetta? So far my Daughters has not needed anything. My Wife's Lexus neede brakes and they quoted $2500. Based on that, I assume a Lexus is 2500 times more expensive to maintain than a VW.... The thread was started asking the question "Does VW deserve the bad rep?" People responded that all of them are junk, and they cost more to fix. Both points are wrong. It's OK though, some people don't like VW's. I don't like Miatas (ok here's my GRM card...) but that doesn't mean they are junk. If every time someone mentioned a Miata it turned into a "Miatas are junk, they eat cranks" thread, it would get old as well.
09 is a Common rail motor.
Flywheels, hpfps, IC icing issues, some DPFs had issues.
tdiclub.com search is the best way to learn all the info.
edit: This is just for TDI's. Gas, is going to be different.
Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: I agree. What's the common failure on a 2009 VW Jetta? So far my Daughters has not needed anything. My Wife's Lexus neede brakes and they quoted $2500. Based on that, I assume a Lexus is 2500 times more expensive to maintain than a VW.... The thread was started asking the question "Does VW deserve the bad rep?" People responded that all of them are junk, and they cost more to fix. Both points are wrong. It's OK though, some people don't like VW's. I don't like Miatas (ok here's my GRM card...) but that doesn't mean they are junk. If every time someone mentioned a Miata it turned into a "Miatas are junk, they eat cranks" thread, it would get old as well. Just look at this thread, someone posts "every VW owner has had problems" and when that is refuted the reply is "well yours does not count" Someone says "parts are expensive" and when that is refuted the reply is "you didn't pick the right parts" I picked random, common, parts. Name another 5 random parts and I bet the results are the same.
You are literally no different than the people you claim are the problem.
That facts say that VW's are unreliable, we are just providing our anecdotal experiences in the matter is all.
And finally, the only (IMO) fair way to compare maintenance costs is to look at how much a "brand" dealership charges for a repair/maintenance. Anything else is way to oranges to apples to compare. On top of that, I'd say "most" people within the warranty period take their cars to the "brand" dealership.
sigh Another one of these threads. I got angry when I replied to the last one so I’ll try to tone it down this time and I’ll try and communicate my point calmly this time with some better reasoning.
Let’s face it, if you want to buy a GTI you want one because you are an ENTHUSIAST and you want driving to be a FUN experience.
You’re the kind of person that expects to have good handling, good throttle response, enough power to make the car exciting to drive, and a quality interior that is comfortable, attractive, and well featured. Buying a car as an enthusiast ultimately doesn’t come down to being strictly a financial decision, or a question of practicality, it’s an EMMOTIONAL decision. If you want a boring, highly fuel efficient, compact car that gets you to work and back every day with the least amount of trouble or enjoyment then go buy an Appliance. Most people that would buy a “sport compact” don’t want to drive a Toaster.
IMO most non-enthusiast car owners have specific requirements for their purchases or they just don’t have one period. Either they decide they have to have a specific vehicle type like a truck or an SUV, or they’ll buy the first thing in their price range. Brand loyalty be dammed.
So let’s stop comparing a GTI to a Camry or an Accord in terms of our perceived notion of reliability and quality. Compare it to a WRX, an EVO, a Mini Cooper S, an Si (if you think those still belong in this category), a Focus RS, a BMW (in intent but not price), etc. and then ask yourself “Is this any worse for reliability or repairs than other enthusiast cars that are designed for performance and will be driven accordingly?” Start adding forced induction to a car, AWD, etc and drive it like it’s intended to be, and your wear and tear certainly goes up more than the kind of punishment a Prius owner will dish out. If you play with fire eventually you’re going to get burned. Like a friend of mine who said he loved his Z3 that he owned but threw in the towel when it ate EIGHT O2 sensors in like a year and a half. Fun car, but not worth it to him in the long run.
Now with that being said, bad window regulators are a universal problem, not one that only plagues “sporty” cars. So if you want to fault VW for shoddy electrical systems on the older cars, etc. that’s fine. Just don’t wholesale dismiss the entire brand or the cars since. I’m sure EVERY marque has some kind of general issues that would concern their cars, and over the course of time some of them go away and some of them don’t.
So if you want a VW do your research and go for it. Go to vwvortex.com and find the generation specific forum of the car you are looking at and spend some time reading through threads. Some forums more than others are going to be occupied by “check out my hellaflush, stanced, bagged, and otherwise bone stock car and follow me on Instagram yo!” morons, but if there’s something that someone had had a common mechanical problem with you will get to read about it there. Check out tdiclub.com too if you are looking for one of those. Just don’t dismiss them outright because some Subaru only driver working as a mechanic had a couple of bad experiences with VWs 10 years ago and loves to complain about them.
Contradiction wrote: Just don’t dismiss them outright because some Subaru only driver working as a mechanic had a couple of bad experiences with VWs 10 years ago and loves to complain about them.
What about the VW enthusiast that tried his best but still couldn't make it past 22k miles without VW buying it back?
Not because of window regulators. Electrical shorts, EGR breaking, trunk leaks, DPF breaking (A$2600 downpipe with 22k miles on it).
A $22k car with $10k in replaced parts.
There are lots of past VW owners first hand that contribute that state their reliability issues. JD Power charts come to mind, I'll let you do the searching.
As far as any car will last a long time if you take care of it? That's garbage. There are lots of faulty designs out there that were MISTAKES to let out in the public.
The current CR TDI's with an air to air intercooler aren't ready for prime time. Point black. Pending NHTSB investivagations on the hpfps, egr gunk causing the IC's to freeze. All engineering issues. Not user error.
Do your own reliability searches and see where VW's stack up against other manufacturers. We're not talk about air cooled stuff. We're talking about the last 20 years of VW products.
In reply to Datsun1500:
I wonder if those numbers line up with market share? I'm thinking % of cars sold would be a better number.
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