Since your budget is a limiting factor, what about co-driving with someone in the near term while you hone your skills?
Since your budget is a limiting factor, what about co-driving with someone in the near term while you hone your skills?
In reply to Puddy46 :
That could be an option, though I have very little experience with a manual and don't wanna trash someone else's car (I've driven one before and think I'd be fine but dont wanna take the chance with a car that isn't mine). How much does that usually cost? It'd be a per-weekend thing right?
In reply to VeganJoy :
Cost and duration is between you and the car owner. Could be a six pack and a handshake, could be paying their entry fee for the event, could be a fresh set of tires for the car. Whatever the two of you agree to.
VeganJoy said:In reply to Tom1200 :
I love how the new edge GTs look and sound, but seems like a rough platform to start with for handling mods. Wonder if there's anything to be done about the solid axle setup. And still a bit of a problem trying to find a decent one under $10k, otherwise I would already have gotten one instead of my first Vette
There are loads of cars running CAMs (Classic American Muscle) at autocross with beam axles. For tracks days it would be utterly meaningless as track days are simply for fun.
I'm racing a car (Datsun) with leaf springs and beam axle; no they are not the suspension of choice but they are also not some hideous abomination. This type of suspension has been around forever and highly developed when it comes to modern cars.
I'll suggest a normal, un-swapped, RX-8.
If it's a track/autocross vehicle that gets redlined often, it will remain reliable. Some local guys have +100k miles on their original Renesis. Just don't drive it like a grandma and don't think you know better than Mazda (alternate maintenance) and it will be fine. For your budget, you should even be able to get one with a rebuilt engine if you're nervous.
Great handling and brakes, loves the track, roomy (if without the sunroof) and comfortable for DD duty and classed not too bad for autocross.
2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe with the 3.8V6 and track pack--$9k
I'd also be considering NC Miatas, New Edge/SN95 Mustang GTs, and S197 V6 Mustangs (cyclone v6).
I have an E36 with maintenance records, and I've got about another $5k in it between stuff I've done and stuff I had a shop do.
About 2.5 years in, the money I put in was the same with the E30 I had a decade ago.
As my shop guy says, it's 2-3k a year habit if you're going older bimmers (and the ones you're looking at are gonna be at least that).
I love the car, but for a daily I don't want the hassle anymore, most parts I need are a couple days away.
I'd think S197 Mustangs, those are supposed to be pretty reliable and for a number a years a guy ran autocross in a CP car - awfully quick on a stock motor, he was easily top 5 time of the day. You don't have to go as all out on suspension as he did, but they seem to handle well.
Couple suspension parts and you're on your way, imo assuming it's as reliable as the Miata has been.
I've had a fuel pump, ball joints, heater core (easy fix on the Miata) and a cam sensor in about 8 years of ownership and 70k miles.
In reply to VeganJoy :
And I'm banging the drum of staying away from anything German at the pricepoint as a daily. Tires may cost more on the Vette, but everything else will be more cost effective
In reply to fanfoy :
Fair enough, haven't seen many of those for sale anymore though. How much does an engine rebuild usually cost?
In reply to ГУЛАГ мальчик УР следующий :
Hmm, that would be quite a budget to burn through yearly. No better with the slightly more recent models?
Will take another look at S197s, was the local guy running a GT? The V6 models seem a bit anemic but idk much about them
Ah hell I might as well take another look at Civics too, it would be nice to have such a bulletproof car. 8th gens just look terrible and that's about all I see for sale on the cheap end lol. Anything I need to keep an eye out for on those? A Fit would be even better but I never see those for cheap
If you want a daily driver and a drive it to the track, have fun, and drive it home; you won't go as quick as a Corvette for less money than a corvette. With the quickly falling prices of the C6 corvette (an LS3 stick shift just went unsold on C&B for $21k (https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KdxAJ66Q/2008-chevrolet-corvette-coupe) and several cars seem to be trading for $25k or less. You could get a C5 corvette for less money and go just about as quick but going to an even more dated interior and more GM squeaks and creaks.
Corvette tire costs are higher than a lower HP car but because of the double wishbone design and the ability to get alot of negative camber they are not as hard on tires as a Strut/camber limited car like a Mustang maybe. They also weigh less than a mustang/M3/etc.
In reply to ClearWaterMS :
Don't want or need a car that's as fast as a Vette, it's already far beyond my current capabilities. Would probably set the same pace in a Civic right now lol
That C6 on C&B was not in very good condition and had several mods that were a detriment to the value. That car with less/no mods and being slightly less trashed would go for $25-30k easily.
Already had a C5, and they're much more expensive now than when I bought mine. Basically the same as owning the C6 but worse in every way
VeganJoy said:In reply to ГУЛАГ мальчик УР следующий :
Hmm, that would be quite a budget to burn through yearly. No better with the slightly more recent models?
Will take another look at S197s, was the local guy running a GT? The V6 models seem a bit anemic but idk much about them
GT. Only 300hp on the early ones.
V6 cars starting in 2014 got a 300hp unit (V8s went to 400hp at that time). My buddy has a 300hp v6, those are just fine, too, but I'd like a V8 rumble.
Btw, the guy running the quick CP car was an early GT, only 300hp, but he did just dandy.
bobzilla said:In reply to VeganJoy :
I don't make enough money to maintain a used BMW. Nor do I own any tools to service one.
I had a 2003 325i for 13 years and 110,000 miles. It was cheap and easy to maintain in my own garage with regular hand tools. Parts were plentiful and very reasonably priced, when it needed anything... which was rarely. I drove it daily and it probably had 30 or 40 autocrosses under its belt.
Hell, at 135,000 miles it was on the original struts and clutch, all of which were perfectly fine.
For anything after the E46, all bets are off. I don't know those cars well.
I wouldn't necessarily deter you from a Bimmer. My E36 328is was a fantastic car all around and cost me very little to own (was on a college student poverty budget at the time) although I also had it right in the sweet spot of the maintenance/depreciation curve. I think you're on the right track with the N52/M54 powered cars, although decent condition E46s are awfully thin on the ground these days. I'd still budget for a complete cooling system and suspension refresh right out of the gate, though.
Moostang could be decent, although they're still relatively powerful, camber limited, and much heavier than your Vette so not necessarily any cheaper on consumables. The New Edge can definitely be made to handle, although it seems to take quite a bit of money in upgrades to really get one properly sorted. Not sure what S197s are going for these days, but I'd definitely lean that direction as they're 3-link IIRC and don't have the inherent bind issues of the 4-link Fox/New Edge chassis. Agreed, a proper CP S197 can be a VERY quick car. The older V6 is a turd, newer ones are possibly decent.
Biggest issue with the RX8 is the abysmal fuel mileage if you're going to daily it. Probably a significant downgrade from your C6 in that regard. Solution of course is an LS swap, but I would not advocate dailying a swapped car either.
FRS/BRZ I really think might be the ticket if you have to have RWD and you're willing to save a bit more. Anything in that price range is going to be R-title and beat to hell and back. The chassis really is phenomenal though, even bone stock, and really hits a sweet spot in terms of power to weight as a learning tool. Just big enough to be practical as a daily too (I dailyed mine for ~5 years) and the ergos work well for tall people.
8th gen Si is actually the first thing that came to mind when I saw the thread title, I really liked the one I owned briefly last summer (the conclusion to that experience notwithstanding....
) Just don't buy the cheapest one on FBM that's been wrecked and poorly repaired, I guess. The K20 in those is an absolute gem of a motor though, it's got the best cable shifter I've ever used, a real LSD, and the chassis is great as well. Styling may not be to everyone's taste but I found the interior layout to be very practical, lot's of well thought out cubby space. There were some trans problems that affected certain years, IIRC, but I had a buddy who put well over 200k on one without major mechanical issues. Just make sure it shifts ok. The Honda tax is definitely real though, which is the biggest downside I can think of.
In reply to Furious_E (Forum Supporter) :
For anything with a Honda K-series, look for documented history of regular oil changes, and/or budget for timing chain and guides replacement.
The first time I answered the same question I came down on this. 2003 G35 Sport, 6 speed. Great car. Cheap buy-in, reasonably quick, decent at autocross and time trial. 1.5-2 sets of 275/35R18 RE71s tires per year kept it from being too cheap. It eventually ate the engine as most VQs do.
I had plans to rebuild it but I'm getting too lazy to spend all my time working on stuff and with an autocross coming up and no car, I bought this, 2014 Mustang V6 Premium, kind of spur of the moment. It ticks all the boxes. RWD, manual, 300+ hp. It is a better car than the G35 in every way. More comfortable, better AC, eats highway miles, better fuel economy by 50%, more HP and torque, better in traffic as a DD, better fit and finish. Buy-in was a little higher but that's probably due to all car prices being higher. Tires costs will still suck but unless you want to drive an small car that's the way it goes.
what about a BMW 128i? the 135 is unquestionably a faster car but also comes with more headaches.
In reply to Toyman! :
Always liked the S197 II models, but they're still quite pricey these days. Would mostly be a tossup between New Edge GT and S197 06-08 V6 for my price range and I'd easily take the New Edge. Still not many for a reasonable price though
In reply to ClearWaterMS :
E82 128i is one of my top considerations as mentioned previously, would never consider the N54 models and N55s are too expensive. There's a lot less 128is than 328is though.
Overall it seems I'm back at square one, considering cheap BMWs, Mustangs, and Civics. Just like I was 2 years ago when I got my fluke of a C5 lol. Not in a huge rush so I guess I'll just look until I find a good specimen that really appeals to me
STM317 said:2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe with the 3.8V6 and track pack--$9k
I'd also be considering NC Miatas, New Edge/SN95 Mustang GTs, and S197 V6 Mustangs (cyclone v6).
I'm the Hyundai fanboi and I wouldn't recommend that. Too much deferred maintenance because hyundainowners are cheap and the 3.8 if not maintained will pop.
VeganJoy said:In reply to ClearWaterMS :
E82 128i is one of my top considerations as mentioned previously, would never consider the N54 models and N55s are too expensive. There's a lot less 128is than 328is though.
Overall it seems I'm back at square one, considering cheap BMWs, Mustangs, and Civics. Just like I was 2 years ago when I got my fluke of a C5 lol. Not in a huge rush so I guess I'll just look until I find a good specimen that really appeals to me
what about a 230i 6 spd./w handling and track pack? Probably over your budget but kinda cool car all the same.
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/9lze0JNN/2018-bmw-230i-coupe
In reply to ClearWaterMS :
Yeah that's probably a $30k car lmao. Would just get another Vette if I had that kinda money to burn :P
Found this great thread earlier: https://www.8thcivic.com/threads/building-for-the-road-course-again.659190/
Would be a pretty much perfect direction to go for my use case, think I'll be looking for an FA5 now
fanfoy said:I'll suggest a normal, un-swapped, RX-8.
If it's a track/autocross vehicle that gets redlined often, it will remain reliable. Some local guys have +100k miles on their original Renesis. Just don't drive it like a grandma and don't think you know better than Mazda (alternate maintenance) and it will be fine. For your budget, you should even be able to get one with a rebuilt engine if you're nervous.
Great handling and brakes, loves the track, roomy (if without the sunroof) and comfortable for DD duty and classed not too bad for autocross.
I generally don't recommend RX8's in threads like this, because anyone who would consider a rotary doesn't need to ask (they're already on their way to buying one).
That being said:
I would recommend the RX8, even over the E46 330Ci. I've owned both and had plans to track both and while that didn't work out for the E46, it did work out for the RX8.
To track the E46, I had to purchase new wheels and tires to rid myself of that darn staggered setup. It understeered like a pig with the 225's up front and 245s in the rear. I also wanted to take care of the maintenance on the VANOS system, reinforce the subframe (to prevent cracking), replace all the cooling hoses/thermostat/waterpump, and I wanted a set of aftermarket gauges to monitor oil pressure, temp, and coolant temp. It was looking like multiple thousands in preventative maintenance, and still needed to do fluids (diff, trans, and brake).
With the RX8, I had to do almost none of that. 245 series tires fit on my stock rims, I bought a set of stoptech sport pads, and changed the diff, trans, and brake fluid. The only "expensive" thing I bought was a $700 set of aftermarket gauges, and an uprated ignition system (optional, as I could have replaced stock ignition coils for much cheaper). The car can run faster than whats "allowed" for our street car category (maximum lap time is 2:30 at the track, and I can run 2:25 with traffic). The organizers are nice though, and let me stay in the street car group. I'd probably be slower if I wasn't on 100tw R888r's. The car's also been on 12-hour road trips across the german autobahn where it lived all day at 6000rpms, doing 190kph and handled like a dream.
Stated another way: I've dropped my kids of at school, drove to the paddock, took the car seats out, and ran four 20-minute sessions before eating lunch and going back to pick my kids up from school. No nothing needed.
The problem is your height. At 5'11" I don't really fit in my sunroof car comfortably with a helmet, and it takes some creative seat adjustment to make things comfortable. That would be alleviated a bit if I didn't have a sunroof, but this was the only 231hp car available when I was shopping (190hp 5-speed cars are a thing out here, and they're much cheaper so people gravitate there). My buddy is over 6ft (whatever 2-meters translates to) and he fits in a non-sunroof model without a helmet just fine.
I would be sure to buy a car from an enthusiast/motorsports participant though. It's good insurance in the reliability department. Also, like Fanfoy said: Listen to Mazda. Premix if you want. I do it because it makes me warm and fuzzy inside, not because I've ever known anyone who accurately tested the results of it against a non-premixed engine.
People overthink rotaries. You bought a sports car. Drive it like a damn sports car and it will happily do sports car stuff. Your butt dyno will tell you where the Mazda's happy place is (It's about 6000-6500rpm and above) but it commutes just fine too. Every rotary owner out there 100% knew what Jeremy Clarkson was on about when he filmed his RX-8 episode of Top Gear. He is ranting about the same stuff we all ranted about the first time we tracked our Mazdas.
Anyhoo, I will add the disclaimer: If you buy an RX8 expecting to tune it up to more power then prepare to be disappointed (same with the e46 330). There's just not much to be had, and aftermarket parts cost a lot (depending on what you buy). Work the suspension if you really need to mess with something and instead spend your money on trackday admission and you AND your car will be much happier. Saying all that, I did just drop $1500 on a set of racing beat swaybars and a racing beat cat-back... I wanted to change the noise a bit, and I'm dragging my mirrors in the twisty track sections with all that fat sticky rubber under her.
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