Looks like TDI owners are getting back at VW in new and inventive ways.

The stipulations of the Dieselgate buyback state that the vehicles must be operable.

VW's Lawyers said: “Operable” means that a vehicle so described can be driven under its own 2.0-liter TDI engine power. A vehicle is not Operable if it had a branded title of “Assembled,” “Dismantled,” “Flood,” “Junk,” “Rebuilt,” “Reconstructed,” or “Salvaged” as of September 18, 2015, and was acquired by any person or entity from a junkyard or salvaged after September 18, 2015.

Since the cars are going to be scrapped anyways, there are owners who have found out how much car needs to be left for it to be deemed operational. Turns out, less than most people think.

Thoughts? I know that if it were a private sale, this would be unethical, but as the cars are going to scrap anyways and as it's not written by the lawyers that the cars must have everything they left the factory with to be deemed "operational" and thus eligible for the buyback and as dealers are accepting stripped yet driveable cars, I see it as fair game.

Yeah, these cars will never see the road again. They're going to be pulped. So why not strip them? Less waste overall.

There are a lot of people that seem to be all butt hurt about driving a car for free for a few years. I'm still confused over how they were harmed.

Don't know how accurate it is, but the owner of the dealership told my father when he turned his in that the plan was to retrofit and resell many of them (no idea of selection criteria for this).

MDJeepGuy wrote: There are a lot of people that seem to be all butt hurt about driving a car for free for a few years. I'm still confused over how they were harmed.

Some of them ran into the issue of really liking the car and having nothing equivalent to replace it with. Who else makes a diesel wagon with a manual trans and significant usable interior space?

I don't really care about this. When it comes to the largest corporations on the planet, it would take a whole lot of conniving and sabotage towards them before i started to feel bad.

It is pretty ironic that the thing i would most want out of one of those cars is the diesel engine, though.

rslifkin wrote:

MDJeepGuy wrote: There are a lot of people that seem to be all butt hurt about driving a car for free for a few years. I'm still confused over how they were harmed.

Some of them ran into the issue of really liking the car and having nothing equivalent to replace it with. Who else makes a diesel wagon with a manual trans and significant usable interior space?

I thought the cruze diesel was an option but it doesn't look like it's sold anymore

kanaric wrote: I thought the cruze diesel was an option but it doesn't look like it's sold anymore

Supposedly it's coming back, but the Cruze hatchback is significantly shorter in length and holds a lot less than the VW Sportwagen did. A friend and I managed to fit a full standing freezer (slightly shorter than a standard fridge, same in the other dimensions) in his with the seats down. It was too long for the Jeep, but it fit in the VW perfectly. No way that would work in the Cruze.

That article doesn't say they are getting scrapped. It says some may be selectively culled for return to the streets at a future date.

Does the settlement require they be scrapped?

I've got no problems with this at all. I could see a possible fix for unsold cars, but the used VWs should all be destroyed so they don't wind up "accidentally" being shipped to countries without good regulations.

VW deserves no mercy for this one.

In reply to SVreX:

The problem is that VW failed to provide a fix, even with the extended deadlines. Because of this, the EPA appears to demand that the cars be recycled.

SVreX wrote: That article doesn't say they are getting scrapped. It says some may be selectively culled for return to the streets at a future date. Does the settlement require they be scrapped?

I don't have the source in front of me or time/want to look it up, but I've read that the ECM and engine must be permanently disabled. Hole drilled through ECM and block is what I recall reading.

rslifkin wrote:

MDJeepGuy wrote: There are a lot of people that seem to be all butt hurt about driving a car for free for a few years. I'm still confused over how they were harmed.

Some of them ran into the issue of really liking the car and having nothing equivalent to replace it with. Who else makes a diesel wagon with a manual trans and significant usable interior space?

This very much describes us, though DSG instead of manual. We've decided to park the wagon while waiting our time for buy back, in the mean time we've acquired a a cheap Grand Marquis, mostly because it was there.

There is nothing comparable to the Sportwagen on the market, every option is a compromise in some form of fashion, price, performance, room, fuel economy, fit/finish, etc. We bought this car for a reason, and we really, really like it. Were VW's offer not so good, "too good to pass," we'd continue driving it.

I'm not excusing what they did.

I have, however, driven a TDI Touareg- its a fricken stump puller. I understand they misled the public, but they also built a helluva car.

If I owned one, I would seriously consider not turning it in, because I would never find anything comparable to replace it.

I don't see what vindictiveness will accomplish. The punishments were decided by the courts. It's not my job to seek revenge, or somehow feel I have the moral obligation to inflict additional pain.

I am not sure how I feel about whether they should be able to export them or not. Once the owners have been compensated and the terms of the legal settlement have been reached, I don't think I have an issue with it.

In reply to bigdaddylee82:

Yeah, the closest thing to a TDI sportwagen is a gas powered one... Except those burn a lot more fuel

I don't see what vindictiveness will accomplish. The punishments were decided by the courts. It's not my job to seek revenge, or somehow feel I have the moral obligation to inflict additional pain.

Well, we can just claim selling off parts was amoral acting in one's self interest regardless of how it could be interpreted. 'Everything i did was legal' i.e. the 'elected' president's carried-forward tax losses. Close enough for government work, as they say.

SVreX wrote: I don't see what vindictiveness will accomplish. The punishments were decided by the courts. It's not my job to seek revenge, or somehow feel I have the moral obligation to inflict additional pain.

Maybe it's not vindictiveness. The buyback is only for FMV of a TDI in good condition, and since new diesel cars are still expensive (2017 Cruze Diesel will be over $24k to start), it could be a useful way of trying to mitigate depreciation, especially if the wording of the agreement states that the car should be in "operable" condition and not "complete" condition.

MDJeepGuy wrote: There are a lot of people that seem to be all butt hurt about driving a car for free for a few years. I'm still confused over how they were harmed.

But they got better fuel economy than any other vehicle options and now VW wants to take the fuel economy away !!!

It's like when you have credit cards and spend $2000 a month more than you make, and suddenly they say you can't do that anymore, stupid big business screwing the little guy! Was living just fine before no problems!

rslifkin wrote:

MDJeepGuy wrote: There are a lot of people that seem to be all butt hurt about driving a car for free for a few years. I'm still confused over how they were harmed.

Some of them ran into the issue of really liking the car and having nothing equivalent to replace it with. Who else makes a diesel wagon with a manual trans and significant usable interior space?

Ok, so you liked it, great. I'd like a brand new 66 Corvette, should I get mad at Chevrolet because they don't make one for me? If you like it that much, keep it and don't take the buyout.

Oh, you want both, a free car for a few years AND a replacement, seems reasonable for something that did not affect your ability to drive the car....

In reply to MDJeepGuy:

Nail on the head.

Honestly maybe the reason there isn't any suitable replacement for the TDI Jetta is because these cars shouldn't have been built in the first place. They should have been down on power, less efficient, or more expensive, perhaps all three.

If you want an extremely efficient car with tons of cargo room the Prius V is really the only game in town.

I really wanted the 17" wheels from one of my coworker's diesel Jetta wagon, but we both got cold feet before he actually turned his in. He did give me most of his $500 VW store credit card though, so my GTI got some new parts out of the deal .... which was nice.

02Pilot wrote: Don't know how accurate it is, but the owner of the dealership told my father when he turned his in that the plan was to retrofit and resell many of them (no idea of selection criteria for this).

I'd be very skeptical of that, and not just because it's coming from a dealership. It would cost more to refit these and put them back into service than than it's worth. VW does not want to be in the business of used cars.

VW doesn't need to sell these cars to the public. They can be sold to a broker. The cars meet regulations as is in many countries.

In reply to Chas_H:

VW cannot export the cars or sell them without an approved emissions fix, which does not exist. It's on pages 12 and 13 of the consent decree.

Consent Decree said: Settling defendants may export from the United States to another country any 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicle, provided that such vehicle has received the applicable Approved Emissions Modification, and that no vehicle may be exported if the applicable Approved Emissions Modification has been suspended as set forth in Appendix B, Paragraph 7.3.

These cars will be bricked and stripped when bought back.

Are there some buy/sell via buyback opportunities here?