Tom Heath wrote: Maybe a better way to keep tabs on it is by looking at the weekly winner's gallery... It has many of the best entries without the dialogue.
I just looked at that, and as an expert, I can tell you that some of those are kinda neat.
Pleae don't waste time telling me I'm wrong. I know about these things.
Concept cars stopped having any interest for me when I realized that they head no relevance to the finished product delivered to the market.
The design of the new FF car is going to be dictated by the economics and realities of the real world.
All of the designs I have seen are too complicated to fit the 15k finished price.
There's the expert we needed...
Unless you're secretly working for Factory 5 and know about their production capacity and materials costs, I'd suggest that you're hypothesizing. You might also be correct, but acting like it's an absolute seems arrogant.
Although I agree that the new F5 car will be dictated by the realities of the real world. 
Like the Smyth G3F, and the FT-86(?), wake me when it is available.
I have not been as "involved" not because of lack of interest, but because of a change in work has left me zero.0 hours to finish the remaining two designs I have started. One based on a Lotus Type 62 and the other an aero ultra lightweight
I got one this week that would be right up your alley, John. I can share it next week after a weekly winner is picked...more Lotus 211 than Type 62, but very nice.
Also, I'm in love with a Myers Manx inspired entry...again, can't show yet...
There is a FF design contest thread ?
Tom Heath wrote: There are plenty of pencil and paper entries. Some of them are fantastic. The rules aren't going to change to remove software tools from someone else's arsenal. What about the guy with no arms? Under an "all-pencil" rule set, he'd have the same complaint. Design wins, tools help. $5000. Pseudo-fame. I can't offer any more encouragement than that.
Well said Tom. I still check the thread daily, though I gave up trying to convince the "experts" that they arent the smartest person in the room. I appreciate the thread and the contest for what they are: a simple tool to get ideas from. Thats it. No one is designing the ACTUAL car. People getting hung up on that make me laugh. I applaud GRM and FF for having the insight to create the contest. If the big 3 have no inclination to listen to us and what we want in a sports car, then kudos for FF for realizing our input may actually be worth something.
Ive never seen a group of snivelers like I have in this thread.
Snootey McSnooterpants said:PPPSSSssshhh, you aresnt just gonna give me the moneys cuz I can haz a pencil and a drawed thing? PPPSSSSssshhhh you arent just gonna say I can haz winnar cuz I knowz I has alll the friends and I knowz all the cool car things? PPSSSsssshhhh you guz is the stoopid for cuz you just like ideaz? dumb dumb heads
they just wanted your input. Then they decided to give you a chance to have your input mean something ... as in a prize. you asstards who wanna snivel and cry about the rules never had to play in the first place. Get over yourselves.
NOHOME wrote: Concept cars stopped having any interest for me when I realized that they head no relevance to the finished product delivered to the market.
Yeah... that was the problem with any design I could think of. My engineer-mind is too grounded in ease-of-manufacturing... so the resulting ideas ended up rather plain and boring. It seems that years of designing wires has killed my creativity... and I used to love drawing cars...
DukeOfUndersteer wrote: All i have is the paper print out, a pencil and a big pink eraser. Sorry, dont have CAD and am not a pro, which it turned out to be. I say next time, have it be a paper entry only, keep it more fair for the little guys...
bravenrace wrote: In reply to Tom Heath: Well, some of us (including both my boys, who are great artists) would have been very interested in participating, but don't have the type of CAD systems that these guys have. Simple pencil drawings would level the playing field. Or maybe just weigh them equally against the computer generated stuff. Isn't all FF needs is a concept, not a finished product? Maybe I'm wrong about that, as I haven't followed it much since the very beginning.
Maybe you two should check out the weekly winner list. There are some pencil drawings in there that are superb. You don't need CAD to enter because you don't have to engineer a car from scratch or do surfacing. The winner (as I understand it) is to be the inspiration for the cars final look.
Don't let imagined obstacles keep you from doing something.
P.S. Some of those designs were made using Google SketchUp which you can download for free.
Thanks for the weekly winnar link. Didn't know there was that. I too, lost interest.... sour grapes because I can't draw (even though the winner is in my head (8) ), and the 'experts' sniveling about the low prize $$ etc.
This thread sounds a bit like the sort of people that claim folks who are more skilled/better equipped/more creative have an advantage at the Challenge, and it's not fair to a guy who wants to bang one together over a long weekend using a set of channel-locks and JB Weld Do we need a caveman class for the FF contest?
I haven't followed the FF thread for a while, but that's mostly due to a lack of interest and time. Give me more of one and I'll go through the whole thing :) I think all the custom lights being proposed are going to be a major problem for FF, as that's usually a big investment. I'd design something around existing lights, either the standard sort of stuff found on LBCs (and Cobras) or a production car donor. But that's just me.
Tom Heath wrote: I got one this week that would be right up your alley, John. I can share it next week after a weekly winner is picked...more Lotus 211 than Type 62, but very nice. Also, I'm in love with a Myers Manx inspired entry...again, can't show yet...
By any chance did anyone from FF walk over and talk with Bruce at Carlisle? They were in spitting distance from each other in the building.
A fusion of Myers Manx and this FF concept would be very cool, even as a separate product. 
As for the rest of this thread, I haven't had time to even think about the contest. Been way too busy. And the little bit of free time goes to Hotlinking...
Here is an example of a very elegant and well executed design from FF. Keep in mind that the roof assembly is an option.
$20,000 for the kit. I would say if you are frugal, you could do one for $35,000
Now let's work this backwards, what are you willing to give up from this image, in order to bring the kit in at $8000-10,000? (8,000 for kit, + 3-5,000 for dead subie + 2,000 for odds and ends= $15,000)
I really am curious to see what comes of all this. My point is that few, if any, of the designs are cognizant of how minimalistic this design has to be. Forget drawing it on a napkin, it might have to BE the napkin!
NOHOME wrote: Now let's work this backwards, what are you willing to give up from this image, in order to bring the kit in at $8000-10,000? (8,000 for kit, + 3-5,000 for dead subie + 2,000 for odds and ends= $15,000)
That kit includes everything except the engine, transmission, and rear end. The 818 will realize some savings by getting things like the major suspension bits, the steering wheel, brakes, maybe gas tank, etc from the donor.
This contest is rigged!! Only people with talent and inspiration have a chance to win!!
Man! Some of you would complain about the taxes if you won the lottery! I can't believe this thread has made it to two pages. What FF and GRM is doing is amazing and you guys are trashing it.
I think I officially lost interest in your lack of interest!
Sultan wrote: What FF and GRM is doing is a nice idea and you guys are trashing it. kevlarcorolla's car is amazing
Fixed that for you.
Thx but it wasn't broken.
Honestly, I'd love to build a Locost from scratch for scratch. But I don't have the fabrication talents, the space, or the time, or realistically the skills. The new FFR solves a lot of those problems at the cost of a bit more money, but not as much of a premium as Caterham or Westfield kits. And making it mid-engined and maybe, just maybe a bit more aerodynamic is just icing on the cake.
That's why I'm excited about the FFR and why I just emailed in my "caveman"-class entry to the design contest.
Sultan wrote: This contest is rigged!! Only people with talent and inspiration have a chance to win!!
Sumbitch, I'm out
I started to get all interested in this. I had sketched out a design (top view and side view) for a car a while back. I was thinking of submitting it but dam! After going back to the thread to see where things were going it became apparent that if you don't know 3d AutoCAD or Solid Works or have a degree in graphics design why bother even submitting. Kind of took the fun out of it for me.
On the plus side looking at some of the designs that have been posted it is apparent that what ever gets selected FF will be producing another cool car.
There is one car in articular that some automotive manufacturer should really look at closely if it does not end up with FF. Kind of looks like a cross between a CTS coupe and a Taurus SHO. 5th post down
nervousdog wrote:DukeOfUndersteer wrote: All i have is the paper print out, a pencil and a big pink eraser. Sorry, dont have CAD and am not a pro, which it turned out to be. I say next time, have it be a paper entry only, keep it more fair for the little guys...bravenrace wrote: In reply to Tom Heath: Well, some of us (including both my boys, who are great artists) would have been very interested in participating, but don't have the type of CAD systems that these guys have. Simple pencil drawings would level the playing field. Or maybe just weigh them equally against the computer generated stuff. Isn't all FF needs is a concept, not a finished product? Maybe I'm wrong about that, as I haven't followed it much since the very beginning.Maybe you two should check out the weekly winner list. There are some pencil drawings in there that are superb. You don't need CAD to enter because you don't have to engineer a car from scratch or do surfacing. The winner (as I understand it) is to be the inspiration for the cars final look. Don't let imagined obstacles keep you from doing something. P.S. Some of those designs were made using Google SketchUp which you can download for free.
Good points, and taken as such. We saw some of the pro looking renderings and figured our hand drawings didn't stand a chance, but maybe that was wrong headed thinking.
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