So here is the deal: I want to improve the stopping power of my car and I have been told just to try some more aggressive brake pads. I'm also looking at some low budget brake kits. I can't swing the $1500 brake upgrade for the car right now. I have four cars that all need some type of work, so the budget is stretched to screaming.
Anyone tried a more aggressive pad on stock rotors or a lower cost brake upgrade?
Thanks for your input!
Hmmm, what symptoms do you have that tell you to upgrade the brakes?
As mentioned above, I'd be interested in what kind of issues you're having.
Two thoughts. When I was auto crossing my 05 GT regularly, 2005-07 or so, I never had real issues with stock pads and rotors, but they were in good shape. A good set of new stock pads and rotors might be all you need.
When I did my first track day I put on a set of hawk pads and Stoptech rotors. These were basically one step up from stock pads and smooth rotors. My brakes were old at the time and road course is known to eat the stock rear pads on the car. My braking never gave me issues on track and even impressed my Porsche-owning instructor. It easily hauled the car down from 130+ on the straight into a second gear turn through every session.
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
Sorry, I should have said this : I want the car to stop faster. I had an instructor last year mention a brake upgrade and then someone with a nicer mustang mention that he noticed how his car stopped so much faster. He mentioned trying new pads.
Thanks
In reply to ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) :
Thanks, I will look at these.
Get pads, the most aggresive you can.
If its just for Autox, that will be the best help you can get. If you "hotlap" the car at a practice or something, you may get some fade, but overall, you will be amazed at the change.
I used to run HP+ in my old car, and it did great. You will get A LOT of dust if you go that route. For "cheap" make it stop, that works.
The thing you have to be careful of for auto cross is lack of heat. Pads that are designed for track use need to get hot before they grab well. Softer street pads have a higher initial cold bite but fade when hot. Most autocross courses aren't long enough to heat up track pads, so you are often better off with soft, grabby (more street oriented) pads. Just something to keep in mind when picking out a compound.
edit: also don't overlook flushing the hydraulic system with a good quality fluid and making sure it's bled properly. Also check for a soft rubber line somewhere. Issues with either of those can decrease your effective braking force and they're relatively cheap to correct.
1) Tires stop the car, so look at your tires and if they are over 5 years old then it may make sense to replace them with something newer and stickier.
2) Start with the basics, flush the brake fluid with new DOT3/4 or compatible fluid with a higher boiling point. Make sure the brake calipers are sliding easily and that the pads and rotors aren't glazed. A good brake pad bedding routine could help break the glaze from daily driving.
https://ctbrakes.com/brakeanswers/bedding-procedure-maintenance/
Throwing "racing" pads and rotors may make the problem worse as they tend to work in specific heat ranges that you see on a track. Autocross is closer to agressive street driving, so tires and brakes that work on the track don't always work on Autocross (and is one of the reasons exotics don't often work well compared to say a Miata on an autocross course).
3) How are you using the brakes? Are you using the pedal fully and aggressively enough? Maybe it isn't stopping hard because you're not used to using all of the brakes?
Finally, AngryCorvair is a professional brake engineer so he's looking for background info and he's pretty damned good at this. Listen to the man.
I've ran HPS and Porterfielf R4S. Both great initial bite, pretty good for fade resistance. They don't require much heat to get that good feel. I have always been a believer that you run good pads on cheap rotors. When they're done throw away and do it again.
thedoc said:In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
Sorry, I should have said this : I want the car to stop faster. I had an instructor last year mention a brake upgrade and then someone with a nicer mustang mention that he noticed how his car stopped so much faster. He mentioned trying new pads.
Thanks
If your current brakes will lock the wheels up with reasonably even force, then the only way you are going to be able to stop faster is to get better tires. The pads have to be sufficiently heat resistant to take the sort of heat your particular driving requires and have good initial grip. Try some Porterfield or HP or several other good brands.
Where the heat management/rejection comes in is not overheating whatever pad you use. That may or may not require modification to the hardware - from removing a heat shield to fitting larger ventilated rotors. A lot of modern cars have pretty decent braking systems, though and the change of pads to one that grips quickly and has sufficient heat resistance often does the trick.
I am running Porterfield R4S on one car and EBC Redstuff ceramic pads on another of my street sports cars and both have given good service.
dang, i just read all those responses and i have nothing to add, except:
I heart you guys!
If you can lock up and or make the anti-lock engage then stickier tires will stop you faster until they make the brakes overheat and fade.
If the tires are so sticky that you can't get to a lock up point then its time to enhance the brakes. The lack of lock up ability may be due to overheating but not always.
The one argument I will make about more aggressive pads even if your current brakes can lock the tires (or engage the ABS for us cheaty types) is feel and weight transfer. Stock brakes on most cars are meant to stop with no mess and in a linear fashion. It works, its kept cars from hitting each other pretty well for hte last 120 years.
BUT... a more aggressive pad can give more initial bite, helping transfer weight a little quicker to unload the rear to help rotation. This is really important on pushy underpowered FWD cars (like I tend to drive). Also the amount of force used to initiate that bite/transfer is different. Less pedal travel, fster bite and quicker transition to the gas (for us right foot brakers).
What I would NOT recommend is adding a set of Hawk Blues to your street car. I swear I'm going to twitch and get rear-ended.
First; as an instructor I find (especially at autocross) people tend to over slow the car, so be mindful of this.
With that said I'd concentrate (as mentioned) on something that works well at lower temps. If the car is street driven some of the pads that bite instantly will be annoying.
Gentlemen:
Thanks for your input. My tires are 200 tw hankooks, one autocross season on them. The calipers are stock and in very good condition. I have not done a proper brake flush, but have done the turkey baster reservoir flush. I'll flush out the system.
Again, I have been told to upgrade the brakes by better drivers than myself, after they have ridden with me. One guy drives a mustang gt 350 r and has autocrossed several different cars. He is also a freakin savant with autocross.
I feel like I am really aggressive with my brakes. I would love to try a simpler solution with pads, especially since I don't have the money to throw at the car right now.
Again, big thanks for your input!
Are you able to engage the ABS currently?
In reply to ross2004 :
I have not tried to engage the ABS. I'm hard on and off the brakes at auto cross. I am not a left foot "braker".
I see we have missed the obligatory: Dude, brakes just slow you down.
In reply to thedoc :
Engaging the ABS doesn't have anything to do with left or right foot braking. If you're not engaging the ABS when braking hard, you're not yet braking as hard as your current brakes can handle.
An easy, cost effective option for you would be going to stock brakes from a newer Mustang or one with the track pack. It will bolt right up and should be much more affordable than any aftermarket setup.
In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :
I did not mean to say left foor braking would engage the abs. I don't know when I have seen anyone engage abs at autocross. I'm stomping on my brakes, and I have stomped on them enough to engage abs, but not during an autocross. I have been autocrossing for years and never heard this come up. I can control my car really well and avoid upsetting it with hard inputs. This is why I wanted something to help me improve my braking.
In reply to Patientzero :
Thanks, I'm looking into it.
thedoc said:In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :
I did not mean to say left foor braking would engage the abs. I don't know when I have seen anyone engage abs at autocross. I'm stomping on my brakes, and I have stomped on them enough to engage abs, but not during an autocross. I have been autocrossing for years and never heard this come up. I can control my car really well and avoid upsetting it with hard inputs. This is why I wanted something to help me improve my braking.
You're leaving a useful bit of braking performance on the table if you're not pushing them hard enough to engage ABS, there is some more braking power to be had beyond humanly sustainable threshold braking. I always make use of the ABS when I autocross cars that have it.
@thedoc a set of pads are cheap enough you could try them. Sometimes you just have to try things knowing they may or may not work. If a national caliber is telling you it needs better brakes then it's something to try. I'm a fan of monster brakes.
The next bit is rather delicateamd please don't take it the wrong way; whenever I read someone saying they are stomping on the brakes it's a giant red flag, my next question is how are you coming off the brakes? Next question along is what's the turn in like (for you)? My thought is if you are already over slowing the car the more powerful brakes are going to exacerbate the situation.
You'll need to log in to post.
