Streetwiseguy said:The GMC lot I drive past every morning has been using creative parking to enhance the appearance of stock for almost a year now.
I've noticed that too. Less cars and big angle parking to look full.
Streetwiseguy said:The GMC lot I drive past every morning has been using creative parking to enhance the appearance of stock for almost a year now.
I've noticed that too. Less cars and big angle parking to look full.
singleslammer said:In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
No! Those people should not be borrowing money. Instead you have companies that take advantage of people who are poorly educated about financial matters by actively seek out them out, knowing that they won't be able to repay that loan. Anyway, we can't fix any of this one here and I will be quiet now.
Nailed it. Similarly, "subprime" lending disproportionately targets marginalized communities who may not have the resources to be "responsible" with their financing or credit. "You shoulda known better" is a weak argument and further justifies classism and racism without doing anything to address the root of the problem. Predatory lending is another prong on fork of neocolonialism and does nothing except justify the existence of class and race. Besides, the whole dealer model is antiquated and laws that protect dealers and dealerships should be dismantled to allow for online car shopping.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to Boost_Crazy :
I don't see how stimulus money makes demand high. If you're so poorly off that a $600 check makes you feel rich, you're not buying a $50,000 truck, you're splurging for the name brand mac and cheese.
Except it's not a $600 check. This third go-round, a family of four gets $5600. That's not Mac 'N Cheese money. That would make a nice down payment on a new vehicle.
I have seen the lack of trucks locally, the Chevy dealer is bare, reputable used car places are doing advertisements to buy your car etc.
The keeping people in debt hung is real. I lived it. I came from a mid income family. Dad was a union gas mechanic, made a good wage. I went to college and had some college loans (not a mortgage payment but more than half of what I could earn a year). I got out and I wanted a big truck, my credit sucked and I couldn't get it. I had credit card debt too. Long story short my girlfriend (now wife) learned me up on finances. It took years to get it through my head. It finally worked but the lure of nice stuff now is hard to beat.
So no judgement from me on the people that are struggling to break the cycle. You need a lot of support to do it.
Wants become needs. If the credit is there, I need a college degree in Ancient Irish Literature, a new BMW and a mcmansion in the suburbs.
Learning to be content is a hard won victory.
In reply to penultimeta :
Ok, they shouldn't be borrowing money. We agree.
If we deny credit, the outcries would be deafening. These are choices they have a right to make. If I want to own something and choose to go too far into debt, I have made a mistake.
To be clear, I spent 15 years of my life working for an organization that offers zero percent financing to buyers of houses. But giving away free money wasn't anywhere near enough. It just enabled more bad debt. We spent enormous energy helping people understand how to make better borrowing decisions. And once they learned that, it didn't matter whether there were predatory lenders or not. They didn't sign up because they knew better.
I'm not advocating predatory lending. I'm advocating education, and every single person on this forum could help educate someone.
Griping about people who are providing a service within legal bounds is not productive.
Bail bondsmen, payday lenders, and high interest car loan companies all provide a service. They are often the ONLY people willing to lend to certain populations. I suggest that the problem is not the people who provide these services (at the high cost that is necessary in their business), but rather the "normal" lenders who refuse to lend to certain groups, and force them to turn to higher cost options.
But it's still something that the consumer can control. Buying a nice car is NOT a need- it's a want. I'm in reasonably decent financial shape, and part of the reason is because 45 years ago I made the decision to buy cheap cars. My first car was $25. My first 13 cars were ALL under $125.
Everyone on this board knows how to buy inexpensive appliance vehicles, and should teach others. But the bottom line is the buyers make choices, and if I choose to buy a car I can't afford, you are gonna have a hard time stopping me. That's not the lender's fault.
In reply to penultimeta :
singleslammer said:In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
No! Those people should not be borrowing money. Instead you have companies that take advantage of people who are poorly educated about financial matters by actively seek out them out, knowing that they won't be able to repay that loan. Anyway, we can't fix any of this one here and I will be quiet now.
Nailed it. Similarly, "subprime" lending disproportionately targets marginalized communities who may not have the resources to be "responsible" with their financing or credit. "You shoulda known better" is a weak argument and further justifies classism and racism without doing anything to address the root of the problem. Predatory lending is another prong on fork of neocolonialism and does nothing except justify the existence of class and race. Besides, the whole dealer model is antiquated and laws that protect dealers and dealerships should be dismantled to allow for online car shopping.
So it is racist and/or classist to charge someone a higher interest rate based on their financial history? I personally find it racist and classist to say that people of certain races or classes are too stupid to make their own decisions and learn from their mistakes and need your help. That sounds pretty elitist and condescending to me, even if well intentioned. This is a math problem, not a race or class problem. There are three options. 1) Charge an interest rate based on the risk of the loan. 2) Deny loans to high risk applicants. 3) Average out the costs of loans and charge everyone the same rate. The people who pay their loans will essentially be paying the loans of that don't pay. Probably won't work out too well.
1988RedT2 said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to Boost_Crazy :
I don't see how stimulus money makes demand high. If you're so poorly off that a $600 check makes you feel rich, you're not buying a $50,000 truck, you're splurging for the name brand mac and cheese.
Except it's not a $600 check. This third go-round, a family of four gets $5600. That's not Mac 'N Cheese money. That would make a nice down payment on a new vehicle.
That's four months' rent in a lot of places, though. Or, say for instance, having your front yard dug up and a new sewer line put in because the big ol' tree has big ol' roots and they just love them some poo water. (To give an example off of the top of my head and not at all related to how I can't take a shower or flush the toilets until Thursday, by estimation)
This is strangely relevant to the concept of being bad with money...
Some dealer groups make sure they have a really smart inventory guy. Some don't. Those that do have decent inventory now and those who don't are paying too much at auctions for used cars to be able to sell anything.
1988RedT2 said:miatafan (Forum Supporter) said:I think a lot of it has to do with the plants shutting down do to chip shortages.
Came here to post this. Inventories are super low everywhere. Manufacturers can't make vehicles.
The chip shortage is huge news here in SE MI- the car companies CEO's had a recent meeting discussing this.
I'd also suggest that the stimulus check has almost no bearing on this- if you are getting a stimulus, it's not likely that you can afford a brand new truck where there are no discounts. Same goes for the labor- if you are making more money staying home than going to work, the UAW needs to negotiate a whole lot better.
I know a couple who bought a house in Hawaii with an interest only mortgage. It was the only way they could afford the payments. It is cheaper and more secure than renting a house. Since they don't have kids they don't really have anybody to give it to when they die so why not let the bank have it back? Some would call that a predatory loan, but it works for them.
If you don't know how to work on cars, don't have a garage or own any tools, and will lose your job and your income if you can't get to work in a place with poor public transit options, that 28% loan on a new Honda Civic or Toyota Camry looks like a much better option than unemployment. It may be the only option. Again, who is to say?
alfadriver said:I'd also suggest that the stimulus check has almost no bearing on this- if you are getting a stimulus, it's not likely that you can afford a brand new truck where there are no discounts.
Huh? You know that households with up to $150k income got those checks, right?
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:alfadriver said:I'd also suggest that the stimulus check has almost no bearing on this- if you are getting a stimulus, it's not likely that you can afford a brand new truck where there are no discounts.
Huh? You know that households with up to $150k income got those checks, right?
Actually the first couple rounds were up to $200k and on the last printing it didn't phase out until $160k.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:alfadriver said:I'd also suggest that the stimulus check has almost no bearing on this- if you are getting a stimulus, it's not likely that you can afford a brand new truck where there are no discounts.
Huh? You know that households with up to $150k income got those checks, right?
Right now, I would not want to try to afford the truck- they are massively expensive. That being said, for the groups that can afford the truck and are getting the check, $600 out of $150k is less than 1/2%. Maybe a month and a half of ownership payments? If that matters, how are you going to afford the rest of the payments?
Getting some monthly payments taken care of is nice, but if it REALLY matters, well....
I'd also suggest that the stimulus check has almost no bearing on this-
I was going to say the same thing.
I keep hearing how the stimulus money is driving demand, but the market here is exactly the same, it's nuts and prices are high. And we're not getting any stimulus money.
Honestly, the economy is on fire here and everybody is hiring.
It doesn't make any sense
alfadriver said:Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:alfadriver said:I'd also suggest that the stimulus check has almost no bearing on this- if you are getting a stimulus, it's not likely that you can afford a brand new truck where there are no discounts.
Huh? You know that households with up to $150k income got those checks, right?
Right now, I would not want to try to afford the truck- they are massively expensive. That being said, for the groups that can afford the truck and are getting the check, $600 out of $150k is less than 1/2%. Maybe a month and a half of ownership payments? If that matters, how are you going to afford the rest of the payments?
Getting some monthly payments taken care of is nice, but if it REALLY matters, well....
I got a $5600 check. Not sure what you are talking about. It makes a HUGE difference.
I could have easily afforded the lift I bought without the stimulus check but having a wad of cash like that hit my bank account was more of a psychological motivation.
The big difference in amounts is if you have kids, though. I could see a single person making 90k or whatever the cutoff was not getting too excited about 1400, but a family of 5 on around 150k will definitely see 5-6k as a nice windfall. It won't pay for the new truck, but now you can maybe pay off the loan on the current car or maybe you've got a little extra for the down payment.
At the low end of the market, the stimulus really sold some cars. Also, this coincided with tax returns. An "underemployed" parent with 3 kids could have easily gotten a $2.5k tax return as well as $5.6k stimulus or $8.1k. That'll get you a used car.
Sadly, that $8.1k probably went as a down payment to a '08 Chevy Equinox w/ 120k and the remaining $6k at just $300 per month for 3 years (or $10,800 for the $6k if the whole thing is paid.)
I am currently working on a Lexus dealership. They typically have 160 vehicles on the lot. They have 43.
They are parking customer's cars and cars that are not for sale in front to make it look like they are not empty.
They are blaming chips (and politics).
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:alfadriver said:Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:alfadriver said:I'd also suggest that the stimulus check has almost no bearing on this- if you are getting a stimulus, it's not likely that you can afford a brand new truck where there are no discounts.
Huh? You know that households with up to $150k income got those checks, right?
Right now, I would not want to try to afford the truck- they are massively expensive. That being said, for the groups that can afford the truck and are getting the check, $600 out of $150k is less than 1/2%. Maybe a month and a half of ownership payments? If that matters, how are you going to afford the rest of the payments?
Getting some monthly payments taken care of is nice, but if it REALLY matters, well....
I got a $5600 check. Not sure what you are talking about. It makes a HUGE difference.
Thank you. I don't know where people are getting this $600 number from, but it's wrong. Family of four making under $160k per year received $5600 in this most recent third round of covid stimulus handouts.
We're spending our recent stimulus check on take-out food........the first go round did get spent on a new pump and casing for the well, but I wouldn't have missed the money if we had been ineligible for it. On the other hand, my son and his wife do appreciate it with two kids, two car payments and a mortgage.
Ok, so I have my numbers down for the check amount- we didn't get one, so I have no way to check.
But I would have expected a bigger jump in sales had the checks been the primary reason stocks are low. And plant shut downs due to parts shortages would not be a big deal.
If you want to buy a brand new F150, I fully and 100% welcome that. Encourage it, for that matter.
In reply to alfadriver :
I'd love to- if there were any!
Since you work for Ford, why don't you tell us some of the reasons that inventory is down for F-150's.
I'd happily spend my stimulus check on the down payment on one.
I was offered $20K this morning by a dealer for my 2012 F-150 with 180k mikes on it.
Most people can afford car payments. They are already paying for something. It's the down payment that is hard to come up with.
So along comes $5600. It makes the difference between whether I stretch to buy a used car for $12K, or use it for a down payment on a new one.
It's a non-issue for the bottom of the market (or for the top). But it affects middle income earners greatly.
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
That $20k sounds get until you realize that you cant buy the same thing for less than $20k.
Ram seems to have trucks, at least around here. Is a Ram an option for you?
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