This is nuts.
Keep it up!
This is nuts.
Keep it up!
OMG this is insane. But...please keep going.
Sticking the two single cylinder bits together may be your only chance at "practice" before the real thing. You may wish to stick them together before shipping them out to another project.
In reply to matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) :
Good point.
I'm sure you've seen this, but this guy didn't even weld the heads together. Just epoxy (looks like JB to me...), though it does leak.
matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) said:Sticking the two single cylinder bits together may be your only chance at "practice" before the real thing. You may wish to stick them together before shipping them out to another project.
Should even be able to pressure test it if I set it up correctly. Good idea.
maschinenbau (I live here) said:I'm sure you've seen this, but this guy didn't even weld the heads together. Just epoxy (looks like JB to me...), though it does leak.
Yeah, that's one of the first ones out there. If I were doing a pure drag car I'd look into it, but the leakage is unacceptable to me. I do wonder if a flexible sealant would work better for them.
They did it like the Nelsons are planning to do theirs. I'd like to know how well it worked out other than the leaks
I love this. It seems totally insane so naturally I'm on board 100% !
Pic #1 - Idea for typical face / easy access weld. Maybe 3/32 or 1/8" root. Maybe one but probably two cover passes.
Pic #2 - Problem: Enclosed Areas & Tight Areas. Obliviously the enclosed areas you cant get to. But how are your going to get the head of your TiG Rig into those funky corners to access those other welds?
Luckily I have the answer: EBW
Electron-Beam Welding. The machine is a tad expensive so that might be something you would want to send out. You guys are down there near NASA, I'm sure that there is a EBW Shop nearby.
Gods, I haven't thought of EBW since I learned about it in my manufacturing processes class back at USF.
Interesting videos here, posting this as a placeholder. Any discussion from the linked thread will be relevant to this one: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/cutting-up-cylinder-heads-and-engine-blocks-and-putting-them-back-together/181870/page1/
A slightly-less-expensive-equipment alternative to EBW for this application might be linear friction welding. 
Driven5 said:A slightly-less-expensive-equipment alternative to EBW for this application might be linear friction welding.
If I were to go banana-pants crazy with this, I'd probably look at Stir Welding for it first. Its always seemed like it'd be fun to do, to me.
singleslammer said:Nothing to add, just want to make sure I keep up with the progress.
I have wanted to build up a 300 since that Maverick that was floating strong the internet like 10 years ago with a stock 300 and a turbo running 11s or similar.
Just to make sure we are on the same page... the 300/240 I6 never did come stock in anything as small as a maverick. I personaly have not seen one put in, since it is a very tall engine, but anything can be done. I would assume, in a maverick, it started life as a 250, but I would be interested in details either way.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
I love me some stir welding too, but I don't think it would be well suited to the geometry or spacing requirements of a cylinder head.
I think the Stirring Tool Head would have fit problems.
LFW (that I have seen and no way an expert) is usually very like elements. Pipe to Pipe, Sq. Tube to Sq. Tube, etc... I wonder if the uneven shape of the head and chambers would prevent a FRB - full rub effect?
Going full circle, the three head idea probably more reasonable technically and cost wise.
Whichever you do, uploading 100's videos will of course be mandatory...
Some more pics to make Curtis feel funny
I centered all three sections on the middle bolt hole of each. Fairly obvious that I needed to leave more meat on the middle piece. I won't need to mill anything to get the pieces to fit together, but that's a fairly big gap. It can be done, but it would be easier with a smaller gap. Worth finding another 862 head to cut up?
In any case, I think my next step is going to be to put the valve covers on and mark them where to cut, then bolt a flat bar to the exhaust side to line it up and then tack the head
Also, if anyone has a set of rocker arms and a bunch of exhaust manifolds they want to sell for Challenge prices please let me know.
Front gap
Rear gap
One of the problems I'm going to have to deal with. Its hard to tell from the pic, but the edge of the block is in the way of where the pushrods would line up with the rocker arms. If you look at the pic below this one you might be able to see the edge that is shown in this picture
Another thing to highlight. The width of the head Vs the block
As you can see here, there's an exit for a water jacket right here. There's also one at the back of the block. Weld in a small plate to cover these, I'm assuming?
The next picture has a red permanent marker line where the edge of the block is on the head. Going to take a funky lifter valley cover to seal it, but it should be fine.
Front
Rear:
In reply to wheels777 :
Interesting idea. I wonder if a piece of card-stock be sufficient for to seal the block from the coolant passages while backpurging? Not a clue about the seats though. I'm not enough of a welder or machinist to give any relevant info on that.
I will say though, I was thinking about your plan and I think I like the cuts I made more than I would yours. Everyone likes their own brand and all, but actually getting everything to line up is going to be more difficult for you, I believe.
Answers:
I honestly don't know. I have a forged 300 crank from a HD engine, EFI rods are forged IIRC, so I'd just need to find forged pistons to send it. That being said I kind of want to figure this out NA and put a few thousand miles on it as a weekend warrior/sometimes DD before I go crazy. I was also working on a turbo for the stock head using the HD exhaust manifold.
Does remind me, I was thinking that I need to figure out the compression ratio this will have.
Again, not that sure. I've always been HP poor. Most HP I've piloted was probably 350HP in a 260Z. After that the best HP to weight ratio is my wife's former car, a bone stock NC Miata.
Keeping with the rough plan above of slowly increasing HP, I've thought about just starting with the head and items that need it out of necessity (intake and exhaust) and seeing how that increases the power, sharing that with the inline six community, then going off on my own.
Plan as in vehicle? Use case? Other? As I mentioned earlier, Challenge build 70s F-series body, Crown Vic chassis, manual trans and whatever final form the engine has at the time.
Post-challenge, a when-I-want-to Daily Driver with maybe some form of auto cross or HPDE, or something else. I'm not really a drag guy.
There is a very concrete reason why I keep asking for any and all input, and that's cause I am making it all up as I go and have virtually no clue what I'm doing here.
The front and rear gaps are not to big (the rear might be too small). That's where the root pass sits, in that space. You tack it together there, then you run your bead. Always grind out your tacks.
Your not planning on dry stacking those parts and running a butt weld on top? Cause that's not gonna work. You need a full pen V-Grove weld to handle the heat and pressures involved here.
Another thing you should consider is you should not randomly block off water passages. Make sure you maintain flow so you don't end up w/ air pockets or blocked off chambers. You might need to drill connections to maintain the flow.
And when you purge, just use cardboard and duct tape. Your not running high pressure on the line in, just enough to push the dirty are out. You don't want it 100% sealed, you want new gas to keep flowing in.
In reply to GM > MG :
I had planned on having little to no gap, and then V-ing it for a nice penetrating weld, but with these gaps I was wondering if that would be needed. As it sits in those pics is going to be about what the gap I'm going to have to fill is unless I find another 862 head to butcher in order to close the gaps
I won't be sure till I destroy one of the end cap pieces I have, but I think that blocking off those two little passages won't do anything to harm me. I'm looking for a breakdown of the cooling flow of an LS now to see if I'm way off or not.
I will need to figure out a thermostat setup, though.
Posting this just so I can reference his build when I need to. Ford 300, LS head, 17.something:1 compression, 750HP, aiming for 7 second passes.
https://www.tiktok.com/@_schnaks_?
Apparently he also has a billet head that was made for the 300. Thing is gorgeous
@_schnaks_ Custom machined billet head strait 6.. #8 of 10 heads made.
♬ original sound - brian schnakenburg
Little bit every day. One step at a time.
This was yesterday. Worked up a mockup jig based on cutting up some gaskets.
The drill bit was slightly dull and caused some interesting harmonics on the plate I was drilling out, as you can see here.
Driven5 said:I want to try to build an LS based V4, but have no clue when I'll get to it either. I am working with ideas ranging from chopped up stock parts (eg the Chet/Jerry Wilson midget V4), to a built-up assemblage of custom fabricated bits (eg Pete Aardema LSR I4). For the former, I need only to figure out how to cap the ends. But for the latter, I want to explore ideas that can be made from machined aluminum rather than cast... Which junk head sections are perfect for.
.
Regarding the warping issue, I'm not sure how it would actually hold up, but have you considered not-welding it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKIKsDfRAcs
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Since your two ends are from the same head, and already lost the blade kerf, did you add .160+kerf (+any for maching the ends flat and true) to both sides of the middle pair? Or are you planning to do something else, like add filler pieces between the sections, to balance out the bore spacing difference?
For today's project, I bought some stuff from this video
First, some quick booger welds
First cut covered up. I may return to this and make it thicker overall, hell I may take it all off and then just booger weld the whole thing. Who knows?
Second cut
For more science based neatness, the amount of heat I pumped into the valve cover lengthened it enough that it no longer fits. I'll let it cool while I go to Costco and see if it has dropped in by the time I get back
Neat!
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