Made in America,Why NOT?

Mods: Move this to Off Topic.

I can't follow the post. Sorry. But I just got one more post.

broken formatting....

"The goal of the tax was to prevent a small handful of ubber wealthy to become the new "Royalty" So powerful that wealth could be handed down from generation to generation, gaining and consolidating wealth by marrying other wealthy families. Sort of like ruling authority was handed down and consolidated amongst the nobility.."

"The reason for that is costs are contained. A profit mark up is assured. However best of all is risk management. If they fail to sell a lot of cars they aren't stuck there paying for a airbag plant."

Here is the missing text. I'm not sure whether he is trying to say the estate is positive or negative... Either way he has a funny way of doing it.

madmallard wrote: broken formatting....

Yeah....he needs to stop putting spaces/tabs/other-indents at the start of paragraphs. That mucks everything up.

The formatting on this discussion board sucks.

That said, good points.

In reply to mguar:

I wasn't arguing with you I was just saying that I wasn't sure which side of the issue you were on. Next time organize your thoughts a little bit more before going on a rant.

That being said I see what you're saying and have no problem with the estate tax. I do have a problem with the 5 million dollar exemption that has crept up in the last decade.

It's "uber". Uber.

mguar wrote: something like a 28 million estate can be passed down to the children without a cent of tax collected..

...and the rich get richer.

Thus why "old money" is usually a stunning amount of old money.

Why not pontificate on the original thread?

In the end, it's much cheaper to just make it overseas.
In a previous life I launched new electronics products. Even when we wanted to source US made subassemblies they were on average 10x the asian competition. Of course then they moved the final assembly plant, and I got a job outside US mfg. FYI non union plant, modern line design but you can't beat free labor

^^That is the point. Sure, you can make a product cheaper overseas, but if all the Americans are unemployed, they cannot afford to buy your product

Sure they can. They just need to sue the E36 M3 out of each other.

JoeyM wrote: ^^That is the point. Sure, you can make a product cheaper overseas, but if all the Americans are unemployed, they cannot afford to buy your product

exactly.. what is the point of cheaper if people don't have the money to buy it. The american people have been sold a bill of goods about cheaper cheaper cheaper...

mguar wrote: Most assume the reason for that is people in China/Mexico/India/ Bangladesh etc.. will work for 9 cents a day. or a whole lot less than rich Americans.. Well that's not the case and even if people were willing to work for 9 cents a day that's not the prime reason things are made elsewhere..

Oh, well, if you say so. It's hard to argue with the compelling case you make. Especially since you don't make it.

China has a huge work force that will work for low wages. And, sorry, but that is a very enormous part of why they make so much stuff.

Just a note- electronics? Made in Japan? Maybe in the 1980s. I recently bought a TV and looked for one made in Japan. Couldn't find one. Electronics made in Japan were typically of very high quality. Audio collectors look for the stuff that was made in Japan.

So things are made in other countries not because of market mechanics but because of some Illuminati type conspiracy to keep the rich rich and the poor poor?

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

mguar wrote: Most assume the reason for that is people in China/Mexico/India/ Bangladesh etc.. will work for 9 cents a day. or a whole lot less than rich Americans.. Well that's not the case and even if people were willing to work for 9 cents a day that's not the prime reason things are made elsewhere..

Oh, well, if you say so. It's hard to argue with the compelling case you make. Especially since you don't make it. China has a huge work force that will work for low wages. And, sorry, but that is a very enormous part of why they make so much stuff.

China also has a revolving work force. Every year they lose about 1/2 of their factory workers. Turn over is very high but always fresh faces to fill spots. Wages are kept low because so few stick around to advance. Right now factories in China are seeing that once a year culling. Supply dips slightly as new workers are being brought in and trained.

This can only last so long. At some point you will see a union pop up demanding the fair wage and safety. Like the American unions were once needed for.

mguar wrote:

Timeormoney wrote: In the end, it's much cheaper to just make it overseas. In a previous life I launched new electronics products. Even when we wanted to source US made subassemblies they were on average 10x the asian competition. Of course then they moved the final assembly plant, and I got a job outside US mfg. FYI non union plant, modern line design but you can't beat free labor

False assumption. (that foreign labor is cheap enough to offset transportation costs) It has been in the past especially with electronics that have low shipping costs per unit. However shipping costs have increased with the cost of oil.. and once the economy picks back up and demand puts pressure on shipping will go through the roof..

I'm out of this thread after this - the guy just told you he did it. If you have some actual experience with the matter I'm sure everyone would like to hear about it. Otherwise, you kind of sound like your posting opinion as fact. Dude, I'm tellin' you. If it was cheaper to build iPads in the US than to build them in China and import them back, Apple would do it. They aren't going out of their way to get work in the hands of the Chinese. They're looking at the bottom line. You'll need to back your ideas up with something - anything - if you expect anyone to take your word over every major manufacturer in the world.

Eddie is right.. partially. Labor is a big reason.. wages is cheap and turnover is fast in the employment field. The other part is the lack of safety and emissions laws... they can build stuff there cheap because they do not have to give a rats ass what it does to the people and the environment.

People talk about bringing jobs back to the US.. but until they start talking with their wallets.. it is all hot air

My understanding is that wages have indeed gone up in China as more opportunity has arisen. Jobs outside manufacturing are available and people move on to those jobs. There are still, however, a lot of people available to work and the manufacturing jobs are filled again. Yes, wages are up some, and that's a very good thing. But still far, far lower than any US jobs pay. Wages could double in China tomorrow and it wouldn't change the dynamic in any huge way.

You know, houses are a lot cheaper over there too.

mguar wrote: Please explain why the average income of the Chinese has doubled every 3-5 years? Why China is #2 in buying new cars and #1 in buying new homes?

Why have wages gone up in China? Because you can't fall off the floor.

Apologies to the mods and members. Clearly no point in posting to these threads. I will stop now. Geez. Looks like we got a live one, boys.

mguar, do you own a car? There's some really interesting stuff on this site about cars. I'm going to go read some of it now.

Wait, so am I missing something here?

Someone (parent(s)) earn a E36 M3 ton of cash that they are taxed on. When this money is transferred to their children, you are advocating taxing the crap out of it again?

How does THAT work?

BTW mguar, the reason why I made the comments I did in the other thread is because I honestly thought you were a canoe/troll, and you haven't typed a single reply since to sway my opinion besides someone posting that they actually know you.

Until you provide factual evidence of ANYTHING you talk about, you are just another person who has too much time on the internet.

So let's all move to China. The pollution couldn't be that bad. Right?

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

I am not really enamored of the Sierra Club and their ilk (that's a topic for another discussion) but one thing they did get right: by passing stringent environmental regulations all we did was offshore the problem.

The regs got passed, the costs went up, the average goob refused to pay the extra, the managers figure out how to keep making money by going where there is no real regulation.

Now it's at the point where so much stuff comes from China that there's no real way to avoid buying a product of this system even if you buy a US brand. So it's impossible for us not to contribute to this problem

Enjoy those cheap smart phones.

Throughout history it's been that way. I guess once China gets things cleaned up (and as a result their costs go up) all the cheap manufacturing will move to Africa.

Nixon signed all those environmental laws into place and then he was the first Western leader who went to China, which at that point had been a closed society for a LONG time. So in a way he sort of sparked what we see now. Two sides of the same coin. Too bad he was such a crook (subject for another thread).