Making a v8 mid engine

I've entertained this for decades and know you have to pay to do it right. #1 and most expensive, see what's out there for off-road V8 vehicles, and there's a lot. #2, get the most reliable version of a used Porsche transaxle.

Anything short of this will simply keep breaking. Worst of all is following the advice, "just use this (weenie) transmission and as long as you light-foot it, it'll last." Yeah, and why did you want a V8 again? Using the Corvette transaxles just isn't going to work due to its form factor.

You get the sideways LS4 5.3L V8 out of a FWD GM W Platform (Monte Carlo, Gran Prix GXP, Buick somethingorother) with the entire subframe, axles and all. Fit it with F40 6 speed manual. Wheel it around to the back/middle. Remove the steering bits and fix the tierods to something. Weld in place.

Huckleberry wrote: You get the sideways LS4 5.3L V8 out of a FWD GM W Platform (Monte Carlo, Gran Prix GXP, Buick somethingorother) with the entire subframe, axles and all. Fit it with F40 6 speed manual. Wheel it around to the back/middle. Remove the steering bits and fix the tierods to something. Weld in place.

I've been toying with this idea for a while. This really seems like the best low buck option out there.

Yeah until you start looking for a starter solution and it turns into a giant fab project to make it start on it's own.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: YOur sketch instantly reminded me of this.

I was trying to think who built that. Thanks

STM317 wrote: Is American V8 a requirement, or just V8? I'd think an Audi 4.0 or 4.2L V8 in front of an Audi AWD transaxle (with the RWD stuff removed of course) would be pretty plug and play. No adapter plates, no concerns about too much power/torque for the trans, all of the electronics would play nice, etc. Seems like a not terrible deal (cue pictures of crazy timing chains).

Audi V8 to a diesel FWD Audi box is a nice package according to the Euro boards. (I researched this intently till I just gave up on my automotive passions)

No adaptors, proper gearing, torque within range.

The original Audi ECU can be used with a flash, immobilizer chip removed. (Cost about $150 from the services I looked up for both)

And the price used Audis go for you could almost part out a Craigslist runner to have net zero in the entire turn key drivetrain with the diesel transaxle.

I have no idea about Toyota/Lexus transmissions, but is there a suitable transaxle that mates with a 1UZ-FE?

APEowner wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: You get the sideways LS4 5.3L V8 out of a FWD GM W Platform (Monte Carlo, Gran Prix GXP, Buick somethingorother) with the entire subframe, axles and all. Fit it with F40 6 speed manual. Wheel it around to the back/middle. Remove the steering bits and fix the tierods to something. Weld in place.

I've been toying with this idea for a while. This really seems like the best low buck option out there.

I started researching (barely) but never really got around to much more. Big unanswered questions for me were... is the F40 really robust enough, are there LSD options for this platform, can a well executed cable shifter not suck the fun out of driving it... does anyone make a custom header for this application so I'm not stuck with factory cast stuff ... etc

a quick google for 'LS4 headers' seemed to find several results.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I have no idea about Toyota/Lexus transmissions, but is there a suitable transaxle that mates with a 1UZ-FE?

There is. It's the Audi transmission. A LOT of the gt40 guys have 1uz's. I don't know why this forum hates that engine. I've done more research on that motor than anyone currently using one (in America). People complain about it's STOCK output, forgetting it's only 5psi away from 700hp. Toyota purposely detuned the motor for longevity, which is why they last a million miles. The gen1 motors are the cheapest v8 power plant I know of. My swap into my celica is at 800$. No more. Add 5k for a turbo and Link ECU and your sitting on a nice torque curve. Let's see your LS do that for the same $$$

In reply to Trackmouse:

I don't believe I've seen a single person hating on the 1uz. Other than maybe the difficulty in hooking to a manual transmission compared to engines that offer factory direct fit options.

I never was able to find much on the f40 transmission.

Huckleberry wrote:

APEowner wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: You get the sideways LS4 5.3L V8 out of a FWD GM W Platform (Monte Carlo, Gran Prix GXP, Buick somethingorother) with the entire subframe, axles and all. Fit it with F40 6 speed manual. Wheel it around to the back/middle. Remove the steering bits and fix the tierods to something. Weld in place.

I've been toying with this idea for a while. This really seems like the best low buck option out there.

I started researching (barely) but never really got around to much more. Big unanswered questions for me were... is the F40 really robust enough, are there LSD options for this platform, can a well executed cable shifter not suck the fun out of driving it... does anyone make a custom header for this application so I'm not stuck with factory cast stuff ... etc

Quaife makes an LSD for them. They're rated at 400NM [295 ft lb] but internet lore has them holding up to 677 NM [500 ft lb] reliably. The shifter thing is an potential issue but that's a concern with any mid or rear engine application.

Trackmouse wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I have no idea about Toyota/Lexus transmissions, but is there a suitable transaxle that mates with a 1UZ-FE?

There is. It's the Audi transmission. A LOT of the gt40 guys have 1uz's. I don't know why this forum hates that engine. I've done more research on that motor than anyone currently using one (in America). People complain about it's STOCK output, forgetting it's only 5psi away from 700hp. Toyota purposely detuned the motor for longevity, which is why they last a million miles. The gen1 motors are the cheapest v8 power plant I know of. My swap into my celica is at 800$. No more. Add 5k for a turbo and Link ECU and your sitting on a nice torque curve. Let's see your LS do that for the same $$$

maybe im misreading or it was a typo but are you saying 5 psi on a 1uz will get you to 700 hp?

i would say most people here do like the 1uz but the lack of manual trans options without shelling out several hundred for an adapter plate turns people away. They also dont have the same 'swap-ability parts' that the LS have with the large variety of motor mount, header, and accessory options out there that will basically make them fit in anything with off-the-shelf parts. not trying to talk down the 1uz, i personally think they are a great engine, but i can see the appeal of the LS swap over it.

fiero guys swap to F40 tran's so i imagine they use the stock fiero shifter cables or there is an easy solution to make it work

In reply to Trackmouse:

250hp/260lb-ft for a 4.0L Gen1. Wow.

282hp/295lb-ft for a 4.0L BMW M60.

A BMW V8 can accept a BMW 5 or 6-speed transmission, make more power out of the box and is cheaper, yada yada.

They are still physically large motors compared to a pushrod V8 and all the fanboi-ism won't change that.

A 4.8L LR4 (Chebby LS) makes 255hp/285lb-ft and are practically given away because everyone wants the larger engines. A cheap turbo can be added for a hell of a lot less than $5K and it will make similar power to the $5K turbo kit on the 1UZ-FE.

Bottom line, the Chevy LS motors are the go to for swaps simply because they work so well out of the box and fit in more locations better than some other options. If you like the 1UZ-FE (and I do as well as I'm not a fan of the LSx EVERYTHING! mentality) or the Audi or BMW quad cam V8s, then by all means use them. Share the results of your swap, spread the knowledge, but don't get all butt-hurt if someone points out why your swap is a bit of an outlier.

Stefan wrote: In reply to Trackmouse: 250hp/260lb-ft for a 4.0L Gen1. Wow. 282hp/295lb-ft for a 4.0L BMW M60. A BMW V8 can accept a BMW 5 or 6-speed transmission, make more power out of the box and is cheaper, yada yada.

No, a BMW v8 is not cheaper, either to buy or to maintain. There is nothing that is as reliable as a gen 1 1uzfe. And you can get them for scrap value all day long, or sub-$1000 in a car, running and driving. Agreed on the transmission, but the BMW v8s are largely neglected because they're more troublesome and expensive to operate than the inline 6es. Which still don't compare to a 1uz's reliability.

In reply to Stefan:

All except for the budget my man. You WILL NOT DO an LS1-9 swap without selling a kidney. Even the l33 variants are all a ton of cash. And THEN you have to turbo. You can't compare a BMW v8 because that motor was an EXACT replica of the 1uz. BMW even admits to it. Those engines ALSO run for a dump truck full of money. So once again gents, I rest my case. You can't make the POWER a 1uz can make when compared to the wallet lightening experience. It can't be done, I've crunched the numbers. Hell, Chevy v8's of the same year suck power wise when to compare the displacement. The Chevy v8 is drift boy garbage with a tax so heavy it makes an AE86 seem cheap. Got a sponsor? Sure, go LS. Got a sub 2k budget, go 1UZ.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/performance-and-maintenance/148638-6-bolt-main-pics-v8.html

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-382547.html

http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16802

I just sold a running BMW 7-series with a 4.0 Quad cam for $1500. You can buy the damned things running for $500 because the expensive luxury crap all failed and no one wants to spend money fixing it all. If I parted it out, the various working systems on it would have made me money.

The BMW M60 started development in 1984 and I'd be curious to see where you got the information that BMW used the 1UZ-FE as an inspiration for its engine. Please cite your source as I'm genuinely curious at this sort of stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

I guess this 4.8L for $600 doesn't exist? http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/pts/5938844796.html

A Holset is about $300 and you can reverse the stock manifolds and add your own Y-pipe to mount the turbo. So perhaps another $100 in parts?

So that's $900 for a 650+hp 4.8L V8 or $5800 for a 700hp 4.0L V8. Oh and the aftermarket is much, much larger for the LS compared to the 1UZ-FE (at least in the US).

Please understand, I want the alternatives to work, I really do, but please be realistic and take the rose colored glasses off. You're not going to win the power/dollar war with the LS. Your best bet is to simply make decent power and enjoy a more modern engine and to not be yet another LSx swap.

The issue still remains with the bmw or toyota or ls motors.

finding a farking transmission that does not make the car 10ft long. when trying to mid mount the thing...

This thread is pertinent to my someday esprit build. Seems longitudinal big power mid engined manual transmission options are thin on the ground. If it's gonna make real power, recardo seems to be the answer ($$$$$$$).

Trackmouse wrote: In reply to Stefan: All except for the budget my man. You WILL NOT DO an LS1-9 swap without selling a kidney. Even the l33 variants are all a ton of cash. And THEN you have to turbo. You can't compare a BMW v8 because that motor was an EXACT replica of the 1uz. BMW even admits to it. Those engines ALSO run for a dump truck full of money. So once again gents, I rest my case. You can't make the POWER a 1uz can make when compared to the wallet lightening experience. It can't be done, I've crunched the numbers. Hell, Chevy v8's of the same year suck power wise when to compare the displacement. The Chevy v8 is drift boy garbage with a tax so heavy it makes an AE86 seem cheap. Got a sponsor? Sure, go LS. Got a sub 2k budget, go 1UZ. http://www.clublexus.com/forums/performance-and-maintenance/148638-6-bolt-main-pics-v8.html http://www.supraforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-382547.html http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16802

i dont understand your links. one shows that the 1uz has 6 bolt mains which are pretty much the same as the LS mains, the other 2 links just talks about how the 1uz is kinda-sorta similar to a Ferrari v8 but basically not at all the same, while having one guy talk about how you could maybe build a 1uz to with other uz parts to maybe make 400 hp.

again not trashing the 1uz but you are coming off as the 1uz is the end all, be all of engines. if that were the case wouldnt you see more of them? the LS can make good cheap reliable power pretty easily, thats why its done so often, if it wasnt good at that then it would be in the same boat at the BMW v8 you were talking about, but thats not the case.

Quoted from Club Lexus, post #7 "There are a good number of guys with ITB, cams, and headers making 180-200rwkw (240-270whp).

For the price of cams, buy a supercharger head unit. For the price of ITBs, buy an intercooler, piping kit, and a BOV. For the price of pistons, buy some injectors and a fuel controller. Now, you can boost 8psi safely and make in the neighborhood of 350whp."

How much does it cost for these upgrades on a 1uz? $1,500 cams $900 ITB's $2,000+ supercharger lower intake (not including actual supercharger)

~400 whp from a 5.3 is just a cam and heads away, again very simple. sub-$1000 heads sub-$500 cam kits

And that is before you ever get into boosting it.

1000 hp 4.8

with porting the stock heads, a cam, head studs, fuel upgrades, and ebay turbo's a 4.8 can make north of 1000 hp, of course reliability goes down but if you detune from there for reliability you could make a pretty safe 600-700 hp

all im getting at is the numbers done lie, people do the LS over any other engine because it's become the easy button, proving itself many times over. so besides initial engine purchase, then buck for buck the LS will make more power easier then the 1uz and still maintain similar reliability and still have a much, much larger aftermarket support

some of the GT40 guys are using an LS to audi 01E manual trans from the 2.7tt S4 audi's via an adaptor plate. Not sure on the adapter plate price but you could probably find a wrecked S4 to get the trans from for pretty cheap since there prices have been going down which means more kids are starting to drive/wreck them.

A guy had a 01E for sale in St. Louis a few months ago and I didn't buy it. I'm thinking I'm going to regret that.

Mad_Ratel wrote: The issue still remains with the bmw or toyota or ls motors. finding a farking transmission that does not make the car 10ft long. when trying to mid mount the thing...

Normal RWD trans of your choice>sufficiently strong 4x4 transfer case locked in 4HI (divorced if need be)>1 ton Chevy IFS front diff (aluminum case, 9.25 ring gear) under the engine. Depending on the trans used it might even be shorter than some of the proper diff up front longitudinal transaxles. T case is something like 80 lbs and can probably be lightened by removing the low range parts.