In reply to z31maniac :
And that's the appeal of the Android Auto / Apple Carplay setup. You plug your phone in and now the more conveniently placed car display can show the phone navigation app of your choice and it feeds the sound through the car stereo as well. So basically in car nav that uses your phone as the brains, rather than something that can't readily be updated.
rslifkin said:In reply to z31maniac :
And that's the appeal of the Android Auto / Apple Carplay setup. You plug your phone in and now the more conveniently placed car display can show the phone navigation app of your choice and it feeds the sound through the car stereo as well. So basically in car nav that uses your phone as the brains, rather than something that can't readily be updated.
Yeah, I'd definitely like whatever I buy next year to have Android Auto.
STM317 said:Do most people not just use their phones for Nav? I think I've put an address into a car once in my life.
Some people were alive when phones were dumb. My 2002 BMW doesn't care for your phone, it came with one attached to the center console. So if you want to use the nav, you're entering it into the car.
I use the on-board nav on our ND Miatas fairly regularly. It's a better display than a phone and it's better integrated into the car. Besides, when Apple Auto 2.0 comes out and 1.0 stops working with all the new phones, you're going to wish your car was a little smarter. You think I'm a luddite for thinking this, but I have a current-generation Dodge truck that has a 30-pin iPod connector built in.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I remember when the 30 pin connectors for the standard iPods was a big deal in the BMW's in the mid 00's... now pretty much useless.
I like Mazda nav, but the lack of traffic updates when they got away from Tom Tom in 2014 annoyed me. So the phones fix it.
The reality is the voice recognition has come a long way. I'm using it for most functions in my focus because I can bypass the SYNC system and it will let me talk directly into my phone through the Car Mic.
So the lack of touch screen is probably going to amount to a minor annoyance.
Keith Tanner said:
...when Apple Auto 2.0 comes out and 1.0 stops working with all the new phones, you're going to wish your car was a little smarter.
This is such an important point. I really just want the phone to work with the car's audio, and to find some sane way to hold it where I can see it. I want to use the car's physical buttons for track skip/volume/etc, and to hear the audio nav directions, which is built in if it's just playing the phone's audio.
There are times a larger screen would be nice for nav, but I'm so bothered by the binding together of generations of phones and vehicles. Nothing is forever, but USB and Bluetooth basic audio playback and control seem steady enough to be "standards" where the level of integration in the phone OSes' car-specific apps are bound to drift considerably. I mean, I have had considerable problems just with pairing and playing via bluetooth with a current phone and a '16 Mini (not sure the count on which sides have dropped the ball how many times).
To get back on topic, I do much prefer physical controls. When we went and sat in a Model 3, one of the things that gave me the most heebie-jeebies is that almost everything (up to and including opening the glove box) is done via touchscreen.
Keith Tanner said:STM317 said:Do most people not just use their phones for Nav? I think I've put an address into a car once in my life.
Some people were alive when phones were dumb. My 2002 BMW doesn't care for your phone, it came with one attached to the center console. So if you want to use the nav, you're entering it into the car.
I use the on-board nav on our ND Miatas fairly regularly. It's a better display than a phone and it's better integrated into the car. Besides, when Apple Auto 2.0 comes out and 1.0 stops working with all the new phones, you're going to wish your car was a little smarter. You think I'm a luddite for thinking this, but I have a current-generation Dodge truck that has a 30-pin iPod connector built in.
Yeah, the Apple CarPlay in the wife's Pacifica is great, but using the built-in nav provides information in the headsup display that CarPlay doesn't.
Since cars provide USB ports, Apple CarPlay will be backwards compatible, plus manufacturers are getting a little better about providing updates to their infotainment solutions.
I had to change the USB hub and update the infotainment software on my 2016 FoRS to enable Apple CarPlay, but that wasn't a terrible thing to do. Certainly not the number of hoops some of the Mazda vehicles have had to go through to enable CarPlay and AA.
I don't mind a touch screen in my car. I DO NOT want it to be a permanent feature. I use a cheap Garmin GPS in my car and so far I've never experienced anything I like more. Reduced my audio system to 6 buttons that I can operate by feel only.
Somewhat related to the topic, I've been interested in the progression of budget cars. I think we are reaching an important point in time where manufacturers and consumers have to choose if they want to keep dumping features on new cars, making them more expensive and more difficult to operate, or backtrack and cut down on unnecessary features in appliance cars.
TopNoodles said:Reduced my audio system to 6 buttons that I can operate by feel only.
On the "customer facing" Miata we just built for FM, I managed to get the audio system down to one knob :) You need an external device to set your playlist/station/whatever, but once you've got that you can skip tracks, adjust volume, change inputs and play/pause. It was a fun exercise.
I have too many old cars to get excited about integration of personal electronics into vehicles. Products designed for a 2-4 year lifespan don't mate well with products designed for a lifespan that's 10 times that. At some point, CarPlay will be the equivalent of that 30 pin jack in my Dodge - and it may not be that long from now. I bought the Dodge less than 8 years ago, so it's still younger than the national fleet average. Even saying "it's okay, it's got USB" shows a problem as the industry transitions to USB-C. And USB is just an interface, it doesn't do anything about the actual interaction between whatever's plugged into, so that's no indication that it'll keep working even if you get the parts physically plugged together.
I prefer to keep the two as separate as possible. A 1/8" aux jack will let you interface almost anything with a sound system, from my iPod classics to a Discman to my phone. I can use the same patch cable on my CRX, my XJ, a brand new Miata, whatever. The car can handle navigation because it integrates better and doesn't rely on a cell signal in order to function.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
have you done the car play/aa upgrade on any of the ND's yet? you get the parts for a mazda 3 iirc and plug it into the radio but you have the have the dealer upgrade the software iirc.
rslifkin said:In reply to z31maniac :
And that's the appeal of the Android Auto / Apple Carplay setup. You plug your phone in and now the more conveniently placed car display can show the phone navigation app of your choice and it feeds the sound through the car stereo as well. So basically in car nav that uses your phone as the brains, rather than something that can't readily be updated.
There's an inherrent problem with relying on your phone for navigation. You are presumably using your phone to navigate you to a place you aren't familiar with. Let's say that place is West Texas where cell phone coverage is spotty for 95% of carriers. Your phones inertial navigation goes of cue and you're lost and it's midnight and the only thing surrounding you is the lonely west Texas desert, some tumbleweeds, and some oil field workers.
I love Apple Car play; but, I like having the GPS system built into the "infotainment" center. Even if they aren't the greatest, the maps are loaded, and you don't have to worry about cell phone coverage. That's just me, I do a lot of camping in National Parks and BLM territories where you won't find a cell phone signal.
I do agree that fully losing the touch screen is a bummer for some functions, I think going back to haptics is a great thing. Nothing better than a rotary volume knob to crank up some smooth yazz at a stop light.
MrChaos said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
have you done the car play/aa upgrade on any of the ND's yet? you get the parts for a mazda 3 iirc and plug it into the radio but you have the have the dealer upgrade the software iirc.
I would probably use the ND Miata parts :) We haven’t done it to our cars as it’s not important to our use at all and, well, I think the on-board system is superior from an interface standpoint.
WonkoTheSane said:Have you guys seen this?
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-purging-touchscreens-from-its-vehicles
What's your thoughts?
Squee.
I'm 43 and i like touch screens. I've had them in double-din Kenwood decks in my WRX and Sequoia and stock in the GTI. THAT SAID, if it's going to have touch screen for stuff like Android Auto, it absolutely HAS to have:
1. a volume knob (GTI does, both Kenwoods did)
2. a second knob that you can use to toggle between things if you don't want to touch-screen (GTI does)
3. good steering wheel controls.
4. "ok Google" or whatever - voice controls
Basically, I hardly ever have to actually touch my touchscreen (getting a Maps location or something is as easy as voice controls)
I actually get annoyed now when I get in the Porsche and it's just a 15-year-old CD player that doesn't do anything without touching buttons, lol....
spacecadet said:But I'm curious if anyone commenting here is under 30.
I hate touchscreens so much that I prefer my dumbphone. I'll get a smartphone when they make one with buttons for tactile feedback.
Screens mean more things to go wrong. My two year old phone screen is problematic. My 26 year old sliders in my toyota are not.
Kreb said:I think that Mazda's in danger of becoming seen as a fuddy-duddy brand with stuff like this. A combination of touch-screen and traditional display/switches seems like the way to go IMO.
You have to be a passenger to use a touchscreen. You have to take your attention off the road.
Mazda has generally always wanted to be seen as a manufacturer for drivers, and this move cements that. If you need to take your eyes off the horizon to change the HVAC settings or turn the radio down, there are serious flaws in the ergonomics.
If gearing towards drivers is a "fuddy duddy" move, that is more of an indictment for society in general than it is a slam against Mazda.
In reply to Knurled. :
They made one about 10 years ago. I had it. It sucked. I think Blackberry still might. TBH if you can live on a dumbphone, do it. I hate that that screen runs my life, but I'm not entirely sure I could go without it.
Keith Tanner said:MrChaos said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
have you done the car play/aa upgrade on any of the ND's yet? you get the parts for a mazda 3 iirc and plug it into the radio but you have the have the dealer upgrade the software iirc.
I would probably use the ND Miata parts :) We haven’t done it to our cars as it’s not important to our use at all and, well, I think the on-board system is superior from an interface standpoint.
its also like $500 in parts isnt it?
reminds me i need to get one of the ebay nav sd cards for my rf
DirtyBird222 said:There's an inherrent problem with relying on your phone for navigation. You are presumably using your phone to navigate you to a place you aren't familiar with. Let's say that place is West Texas where cell phone coverage is spotty for 95% of carriers. Your phones inertial navigation goes of cue and you're lost and it's midnight and the only thing surrounding you is the lonely west Texas desert, some tumbleweeds, and some oil field workers.
Your phone can be asked to download the maps for wherever you're going (mine sometimes asks me if I want to), and the GPS of course doesn't require a cell signal. It's just as capable as the car's nav system here, it just doesn't default to loading all the maps.
Mndsm said:Screens mean more things to go wrong. My two year old phone screen is problematic. My 26 year old sliders in my toyota are not.
Screens, I assume, are cheaper to manufacture. A touchscreen is a generic commodity, and application-specific software which is essentially free as far as production costs are concerned. Buttons and knobs cost money.
Your 26 year old Toyota controls cables, which are not used anymore not only for packaging and assembly reasons, but also for "haptics" reasons. They want to make all the knobs feel the same, and there is a huge difference between turning a blower motor knob (a rotary switch) and a blend control knob (moves a cable) and a mode control knob (maybe controls cabes, maybe controls vacuum, maybe is an electric switch). Even manual HVAC controls nowadays are just switches to tell a control module how to move electrically controlled devices. Again, part of it is because it's easier to package and assemble wiring than it is cables and hoses and levers, part of it is because they want all the controls to feel ("haptics") the same.
Since everything is controlled by a module, may as well ditch the application-specific knobs and buttons and go with a generic touchscreen that you can customize with lines of code. Touchscreens are the CHEAP way out.
I wonder if they backed off due to liability concerns. No company will admit to that sort of thing (psssst, the reason the retail industry purposely cooled off on Black Friday is due to liability concerns from the near-riots of the late 2000s/early 2010s ... you didn't hear this from me). Sorta like how Waymo was spun off from Google.
It seems like folks complained a lot when BMW came out with iDrive , but the dial and high centered display screen really works in practice. I love the one in my 2014.. I don’t think they ever tried the touchscreen at all.
Interesting to see support for Android Auto here. I've used it in several rentals and my DD has it. It blows.
I would like it 10x more if I didn't have to plug my phone in. I don't want to plug in my phone. From what I understand it doesn't even transmit data via the cable anyway, its still a Bluetooth connection. WTF.
cdeforrest said:It seems like folks complained a lot when BMW came out with iDrive , but the dial and high centered display screen really works in practice. I love the one in my 2014.. I don’t think they ever tried the touchscreen at all.
Yes, iDrive is kind of wonky. On the other hand, the E30 had an incredibly awesome HVAC system where there was a control for fan speed, a control for temp, a control for how much air came through the vents, a control for how much through defrost, and a control for how much came through the floor. None of this pre-baked you--will-like-the-options-we-give-you selector knob crap - if you wanted vent and defrost, you got it. And when you wanted less defrost, you moved the defrost lever over to the left, and it was Good.
Any change from that ergonomic simplicity would be seen as a downgrade.
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