As reported in another thread, in Ontario, the land of 13% sales tax and low dollar, the ND Miata is about 40K on the lot and 45K in my driveway. Or more.
When I pointed at the FRS and mentioned that they were 12k more than the competition, he was quick to point out that the Miata is in competition with the likes of Mercedes' SLK and not the Twins. I may have laughed at him.
This is why I wonder about car salespeople.
Is it a result of oxygen deprivation at birth or do they work at this?
All the ones that set me off just appear to be compulsive liars. Not all by any means but the ones that make me want to slap them when they start spouting this junk.
This is done in USD but when the Miata was introduced in 1989 as a '90 Model the base price was $13,500. Most had dealer mark up or options so lets make this easy that $15,000 was a typical "low" price. If you bought all the options and hard top, maybe $3k more so let's say $18,000.
$15,000 in 1989 is like $29,300 today.
$18,000 in 1989 is like $35,075 today.
Source: http://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=15000&year=1989
Here in the US, the ND base starts at $23,900.
If you load the options, the GT PRHT w/ auto starts at $30,550.
Miatas might be relatively cheaper than they ever have.
Reminds me of a discussion I had on another forum. Some dude argued that there was no such thing as "real evil" and that everyone was doing what they thought was right or justifiable, even if misguided.
The opening salvo of my counterpoint? Car salesmen.
GameboyRMH wrote: Reminds me of a discussion I had on another forum. Some dude argued that there was no such thing as "real evil" and that everyone was doing what they thought was right or justifiable, even if misguided. The opening salvo of my counterpoint? Car salesmen.
Funny story...Cause its the same guy.
3 years ago the wife unit showed up to buy a Mazda 3. The test drives were done and we were sitting in the office. Wife was going to tell him that she wanted to buy the car and pull out the checkbook.
He spouted some words to the effect that the price had a deadline and that she had to make up her mind.
Out the door she went. Two seconds, if he had only held his mouth for two seconds, he would have had the sale. Instead she bought the Versa.
As to the Miata, I think I am done buying new cars, especially in the introductory year. I have done in the past with the Miata and now with the FRS. It is a dumb move. Have 7 more years with the FRS and then I will look south for a nice gently used 5 year old ND.
In reply to NOHOME:
Have you shopped any furniture stores lately? They're worse.
Devils advocate: For the large percentage of typical buyers specifically desiring a new sporty looking roadster...The twins are neither in the same class, nor direct competitors to, the Miata. So at that point the question becomes, what exactly are the limits of what could 'reasonably' be stated as the roadsters it is competing with for sales?
What I'm still trying to figure out, is why the inflated pricing apparently hits the Miata so disproportionately that local prices jump from FRS/BRZ price range to SLK price range.
The reason why new Miata prices are so high up here is because nobody buys low power roadsters anymore.
G_Body_Man wrote: The reason why new Miata prices are so high up here is because nobody buys low power roadsters anymore.
But they buy slower and heavier low-powered coupes, to keep prices on those down?
Driven5 wrote:G_Body_Man wrote: The reason why new Miata prices are so high up here is because nobody buys low power roadsters anymore.But they buy slower and heavier low-powered coupes, to keep prices on those down?
Tuners buy the Frisbees because they technically have four seats, therefore the insurance rates are similar to a new civic. Only people like us buy miatas, and very few of us buy them new.
The Toyobaru is also way more practical than the Miata - you can jam one or two people into those back seats on occasion, or lots of stuff, especially if you fold the seats flat to join that area with the trunk. And it's a lot better looking IMO.
Driven5 wrote: Devils advocate: For the large percentage of typical buyers specifically desiring a new sporty looking roadster...The twins are neither in the same class, nor direct competitors to, the Miata. So at that point the question becomes, what exactly are the limits of what could 'reasonably' be stated as the roadsters it is competing with for sales? What I'm still trying to figure out, is why the inflated pricing apparently hits the Miata so disproportionately that local prices jump from FRS/BRZ price range to SLK price range.
I guess you could be right, but the NC was certainly on the candidates list when I was looking to buy a wildly impractical 2 seater RWD sportscar to drive year round in Canada. (Yeah..I do consider the FRS to be a 2 seater, its that stupid in the back)
The pricing on the Miata might actually boost FRS sales. The then 40k for the Miata was one of the reasons I went for the FRS.
The drop in the CDN$ seems to have affected the ND more than other vehicles. You can buy a base 370Z for ~$32k+, Genesis R-Spec for ~$30k+, FRS for ~$27.5k.
The three I saw at our dealer last week had no markup. Maybe they haven't caught up to the game yet. I also noticed yesterday that they are also all sold.
Years ago my wife was test driving a used Jeep Grand Cherokee. She asked the salesman (who was rifing shotgun with me in the back seat) what kind of engine it had. He answered assuredly "It's got a 6 cylinder." She countered with "Inline of V?" He sort of stammered "Oh, uh, pretty sure it's an inline V6."
She immediately slammed into a u-turn back to the dealership where we dropped the truck and the salesman off. I laughed the whole way back. He had no idea why she suddenly had zero use for him.
Proud of that girl!
Snrub wrote: The drop in the CDN$ seems to have affected the ND more than other vehicles. You can buy a base 370Z for ~$32k+, Genesis R-Spec for ~$30k+, FRS for ~$27.5k.
This is what doesn't make any sense. If it was a Canadian exchange rate thing, it should affect the MSRP of them all of them similarly. It can't be a country of origin or country of manufacturers headquarters thing either. Manufacturers typically don't just artificially raise the MSRP of vehicles relative to the competition for no apparent reason, and price gouging of new models due to high demand typically happens at the dealership level rather than on the official MSRP.
Miatas have always been relatively expensive in Canada.
While it may be a foreign concept to us, the simple fact is having an interest in cars is not a pre-requisite for being a car salesman. Being a good at extracting as much money as possible out of each sale, however, is.
The majority of the car buying public are not "car people". Even those that buy Miatas. Car salesmen are trained to deal with them. Not us. The really good ones recognize "us" quickly and will make a sale by being frank and getting the process done quickly. They know we'll recognize B.S. and walk at the first sign.
Ian F wrote: While it may be a foreign concept to us, the simple fact is having an interest in cars is not a pre-requisite for being a car salesman. Being a good at extracting as much money as possible out of each sale, however, is. The majority of the car buying public are not "car people". Even those that buy Miatas. Car salesmen are trained to deal with them. Not us. The really good ones recognize "us" quickly and will make a sale by being frank and getting the process done quickly. They know we'll recognize B.S. and walk at the first sign.
That is the point. I already know that they are not engineers, but the smart salespeople need to figure out if you are!
Knowing whether to listen or talk to the customer is the sign of a good salesperson. I find that the electronics guys at the big box stores tend to be the best trained in this respect.
G_Body_Man wrote:Driven5 wrote:Tuners buy the Frisbees because they technically have four seats, therefore the insurance rates are similar to a new civic. Only people like us buy miatas, and very few of us buy them new.G_Body_Man wrote: The reason why new Miata prices are so high up here is because nobody buys low power roadsters anymore.But they buy slower and heavier low-powered coupes, to keep prices on those down?
Huh?
Perfect driving record, my '15 BRZ is more expensive to insure than my '13 GT Mustang was.
That's because only ricers buy BRZs and FRSs.
In reply to z31maniac:
That's because Civics have high insurance because they always getting stolen. 
Driven5 wrote:Snrub wrote: The drop in the CDN$ seems to have affected the ND more than other vehicles. You can buy a base 370Z for ~$32k+, Genesis R-Spec for ~$30k+, FRS for ~$27.5k.This is what doesn't make any sense. If it was a Canadian exchange rate thing, it should affect the MSRP of them all of them similarly. It can't be a country of origin or country of manufacturers headquarters thing either. Manufacturers typically don't just artificially raise the MSRP of vehicles relative to the competition for no apparent reason, and price gouging of new models due to high demand typically happens at the dealership level rather than on the official MSRP.
MSRP for the Miata in Canada is $31,900. FYI.
Competition for the Miata is not necessarily other sport coupes, as it's a convertible and they aren't. There aren't a lot of sporty convertibles on the market, and it's very likely that customers might be cross-shopping the Mercedes and not the BRZ. You might be cross-shopping them, but that's because you've decided that the convertible aspect is not a factor for you.
The 370Z convertible starts at $50k Cdn MSRP. The SLK is $52k. Of course salesmen want you to compare the Miata to that, it makes it look like a screaming deal and it's a lot easier to sell something if it's viewed as a premium product. I was in a Canadian Nissan and MINI showroom yesterday. The MINI guys don't like it when you point out that for the price of the tarted up hatch on their floor, you can buy a Micra. Plus another Micra. Plus have $10k left over to convert one of them into a race car for the spec series.
Canadians are really happy their dollar is low. It lets them complain about it. Nothing is more Canadian than complaining about the exchange rate and prices. I am speaking both as a Canadian and as someone who sells parts to Canada from the US. I never have to check the exchange rate because my customers are eager to tell me about it.
Keith, you are making me lmao !!! Makes me feel like I am listening to my Canadian sales guy coworkers. If $CDN is higher valued than $US, they can't sell anything. If vice versa, they can't afford to buy anything. Never "good enough" ...
Thanks for the clarifications on Canadians and Canadian base MSRP's!
So it was an optioned up Miata vs base FRS. The longer the options list, the quicker the price can climb. Just look at MINI's...or Porsche's if you're brave enough.
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