The RX-8 marked the end of the rotary engine as we knew it, but Mazda's newest all-electric car is planning to bring it back—this time as a range extender.
The Mazda MX-30 crossover is set to go on sale soon in select markets—i.e., not North America—beginning as a hybrid that will later be offered as an all-electric vehicle.
It's that electric version …
Assuming the intent is to use the engine to power a generator that would in turn provide power to the batteries, it makes sense. A small, lightweight and compact engine operating at a fixed RPM sounds like something a rotary could be good for.
that interior is simply stunning.
I don't think that will produce the fuel economy consummate with an economical vehicle, and honestly I don't think it's necessary anymore.
The interior looks great, though.
Now call it a BEV Mazda 3 hatch with around 300 miles range and I'm in.
Right, who on here is going to be the first to bridge port the range extender?
Sweet. Can we have a 4 rotor back in IMSA now?
fidelity101 (Forum Supporter) said:that interior is simply stunning.
"This trim level only available on the "Or should I buy a porsche" special edition."
tuna55 said:I don't think that will produce the fuel economy consummate with an economical vehicle, and honestly I don't think it's necessary anymore.
Theoretically a rotary engine can make good fuel economy at a fixed RPM. I guess part of the question is, if "long range" is a moderate, rather than infrequent driving need, does it cost less to have a big battery, or a range extender ICE generator? Does anyone who purchases in this space, truly care about really long range, or the cost/benefit analysis? Is a 1 rotor engine really a better choice than say a 3-cyl? I suspect the rotary is in there for marketing, not because it truely makes commercial sense in this case. The last Mazda rotaries were still hand built.
As you elude to, I think all of the "range extender" electric vehicles like the Volt and i3 have been commercial flops. To take it a step further, has any non-telsa EV, and non-hybrid been a success so far? Early indications are the Porsche Taycan may be the only other one.
tuna55 said:I don't think that will produce the fuel economy consummate with an economical vehicle, and honestly I don't think it's necessary anymore.
A Wankel at full load can have a BSFC around .40 lb/hp/hr. Where the reputation for thirstiness comes from is that they absolutely suck for BSFC at low load, which is where practically all on-road driving is.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:tuna55 said:I don't think that will produce the fuel economy consummate with an economical vehicle, and honestly I don't think it's necessary anymore.
A Wankel at full load can have a BSFC around .40 lb/hp/hr. Where the reputation for thirstiness comes from is that they absolutely suck for BSFC at low load, which is where practically all on-road driving is.
On the lowest octane gas you can stir up IIRC.
I'm mildly surprised it took Mazda this long to think of this. I remember reading about a couple companies that were using Wankel engines for small energy generation as far back as a decade ago. Little tiny things, no bigger than your hand all the way up to "normal" sized ones.
Liquid Piston was one of the companies I read about.
https://www.wired.com/2016/06/tiny-engine-one-step-closer-powering-drones-electric-cars/
Yeah, everything that sucks about a rotary doesn't suck when its operating at a fixed load and rpm (and temp, even).
Remember when they stuck a rotary range extender in a Mazda5 concept? The Mazda5 has been discontinued for over 5 years. That's how long we've been waiting for this to be production.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
There's also Rotron and Aixro that make small Wankels for UAVs and kart racing.
I also remember a start-up years ago that was going to have magnets and coils inside the rotor and housing so that the engine itself is a generator, never saw more than a patent document.
In reply to Vigo (Forum Supporter) :
Sounds like the rotary would be good paired with a cvt. Keep the engine where it needs to be, and just change the gear ratio
The smooth running chacteristics of the rotary also makes it less obtrusive when the range extender is running.
The rotary isn't the only way this car is unique. Mazda PR says --
HERITAGE CORK
"Because no trees are cut down and only the bark is stripped away to obtain the material, cork is a naturally derived product with low environmental impact. The MX-30 uses cork left over from the production of cork bottle stoppers. The material’s inherent warmth, gentle touch and cushioning are put to good use in the console’s tray section as well as on the door grips. To ensure the high level of durability required for use as car parts, Mazda developed a dedicated coating and a special technique to process the cork and its base material at the same time."
Mr_Asa said:I'm mildly surprised it took Mazda this long to think of this. I remember reading about a couple companies that were using Wankel engines for small energy generation as far back as a decade ago. Little tiny things, no bigger than your hand all the way up to "normal" sized ones.
So Mazda has been developing this for..... in automotive lifecycle terms...... a long time. this video from youtube is about to be 7 years old..
In reply to Snrub :
The Volt was a wonderful engineering feat, marketing was in a consensual relationship with a dog. With regards to range extenders in general without real demographic data the members of this forum are generally home owners with some form of shop who aspire to a larger property with a bigger shop. For a home owner charging at home may mean rearranging uses so a vehicle can be charged.
Here is my personal experience, for the last 13 1/2 years I have been an independent courier and 35+ years ago I delivered pizza. My experiences over the years show me that in areas with lots of renters or multi family developments many cars are parked on the street with no safe access to power, and for these people the range extender will allow them to operate until they can get to an accessible charger.
PS: Why didn't Nissan/GM put the Volt drivetrain in the NV200/Express City?
In reply to nderwater :
Also a nod to the past. When Mazda was first founded they were a cork manufacturer.
Rons said:PS: Why didn't Nissan/GM put the Volt drivetrain in the NV200/Express City?
It's puzzling, isn't it? The heavier the vehicle, the bigger the fuel savings and emissions reduction benefit from a hybrid drivetrain. And the bigger the vehicle, the easier it is to package the extra components.
The rotaries were never stars at emissions either, but I wonder of that changes when they are run at steady rpm rather than normal driving?
wspohn said:The rotaries were never stars at emissions either, but I wonder of that changes when they are run at steady rpm rather than normal driving?
Oddly enough, the huge push by everyone to develop a viable Wankel was due to emissions. They are naturally very low in NOx, so emissions cleanup is just a matter of running rich and burning the leftover CO/HC in the exhaust with an air pump. (Mazda avoided catalytic converters in the US until 1981, at which point they were mandatory.) For piston engines, some automakers were predicting 3000mi engine service lives if they had to meet 1975 and later standards... before the catalytic converter was available.
When the cats were in use, and the automakers could easily clean emissions after the fact, interest in the Wankel dropped to zero.
Just stop it
Although the Wankel offers a lot in range extender service, a microturbine can offer even more.
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