Mazdaspeed3? Denied!

They have that good ad for the 6 right now, and the one for the Miata was great too, it was sort of like an ad for all things Mazda. But yeah, I haven't seen a TV ad for the 3.

I know Mazda sells way, way below what the other Japanese brands do. I think Kia even sells more cars. Again, I totally get that they can't manage to do this right now (or before...how much different was the 2nd gen car from the 1st), but it's just such a shame in my opinion. When I saw that the CX-9 was going to have the turbo motor in it, I was thinking, that's it guys!

I hope this CEO is just blowing smoke. Too upscale? What, to build a hot hatch? Well, build a MS 6 then! An AWD sports sedan weighing around 3200lbs with that CX-9 motor, I'd take that!

Remember when Subaru went upscale, and started making Camrys?

Huckleberry wrote: I think it's funny that they think they are "more upscale" now. That isn't what anyone else thinks. Not even Kia owners.

Haha when I read the line I thought "More upscale you say? OK, if you think so."

I don't think they're less upscale than Kia...but at the same time, I'm not sure they're more upscale either.

In reply to pointofdeparture:

In short, people often make no sense.

Appleseed wrote: Remember when Subaru when upscale, and started making Camrys?

Remember how that led them to set record-breaking sales numbers beyond their projections?

And cars we don't give two E36 M3s about?

I really hope they don't start making Camrys. They still are trying to market themselves as the the driver's car with Zoom-Zoom and Driving Matters campaigns. And I do think the 3 is a better driver's car then most things in its class, but this guy seems to think that Mazdas are Acuras now that they have nice interiors (which I do appreciate btw).

To me another big issue is Mazda's dealers are not so hot (based on my experience with one dealer and general internet chatter) and there aren't as many of them as other makes. There are mostly likely great dealers out there, but if they have a bad reputation, people will cross them off the list. Buying a car from a dealer is one of the most hated things ever, so who would knowingly sign up for more hassle?

The 3 not selling enough to justify Mazdaspeed cars may be a good point.

Around here, the Mazda 3 was a pretty good seller. I still see a lot of 1st and 2nd gen cars on the roads. But the 2014+ cars? Those are not nearly as common.

I know it sounds weird, but the new styling language that Mazda employs doesn't translate as well as it should to the 3. The hatch looks like an Infiniti SUV, and the front of both the sedan and the hatch looks downright goofy with the license plate mounted right in the middle of the damn grille. And that's coming from someone who owns a GoofJaw (tm) Mazda 3!

The license plate obscures a good chunk of that new grille.

Is this why people aren't buying them? Probably not. Mazda doesn't have the same footprint that the bigger sellers do, so they are going to sell less cars.

What about the 6? Surprisingly, the 2014+ models are selling really well around here. I see them a lot, and people seem to like them. But I can't see Mazda building a Mazdaspeed 6 any time soon. They didn't sell a ton of the earlier ones, and they have proven to be less than reliable, even though they were cool. Like I said before, I can see them doing a "sport" package, offering the turbo 4 under the hood, kind of like what Ford is doing for the Fusion next year.

In reply to Appleseed:

I want more sporty Mazdas as much as anyone else here, but not at the cost of them being the next once-great automaker to go out of business. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that. Mazda is basically the smallest mass-market automaker still in business; even the ND Miata is likely not going to give them a massive return on their investment. It's just business. Mazda can't cover the market with niche products like Ford on a fractional percentage of their budget, simple as that. Inversely, Subaru was able to take on a big chunk of BRZ development primarily because they were selling enough beige-tactic Legacies to make it happen. I have no problem with that.

Part of me wonders if they aren't just hiding something good for another "reveal" like they did with Miata RF...

In reply to pointofdeparture:

I completely agree. A guy is just disappointed. Wildscotsracing, I wonder/hope the same.

GameboyRMH wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: I think it's funny that they think they are "more upscale" now. That isn't what anyone else thinks. Not even Kia owners.

Haha when I read the line I thought "More upscale you say? OK, if you think so." I don't think they're less upscale than Kia...but at the same time, I'm not sure they're more upscale either.

Go sit in the new top trim level Mazda 6. The ex-wife has one and it's a damn nice, big comfy car that knocks down over 40mpg on the highway with the big BOSE stereo blaring away.

pointofdeparture wrote:

Appleseed wrote: Remember when Subaru when upscale, and started making Camrys?

Remember how that led them to set record-breaking sales numbers beyond their projections?

This is now, the "try to out-Camry the Camry" phase was in the early 90s when they decided to ditch quirky and make Legacies. It didn't work. (If you're thinking "Legacies aren't quirky?" then you haven't driven a DL/GL or even seen an XT)

Then they realized, we know odd, we own odd, we should stick to that. Starting in 1998 they made it company policy to no longer sell the front-drive versions here as they diluted the brand. AWD or nothing.

It worked but it took a while.

Tyler H wrote:

Storz wrote: I've always thought of Mazda as the working mans BMW car company, they make vehicles that just feel "right"

I never really thought about that, but I have a CX-5 and a 330i sitting in my garage right now. There is a LOT in the CX-5 suspension that seems 'inspired' by BMW. The front control arm bushings could almost interchange. Oddly enough, I think they're about shot on our 75K CX-5, so sounds about right.

haha spot on about the control arm bushings, my 4 previous BMWs all needed them

WildScotsRacing wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: I think it's funny that they think they are "more upscale" now. That isn't what anyone else thinks. Not even Kia owners.

No kidding! Isn't that what the Infinity brand is for???

Infiniti = Nissan

Mazda doesn't have an upscale brand that I am aware of

In reply to Knurled:

I have owned two XTs and more GL/DLs than I can count; believe me, I know my Subarus. I grew up in them. But the Legacy generation that started in 2010 is generally seen as Subaru once again trying to out-Camry the competition (abandoned a lot of the Euro-esque athleticism of the previous model if nothing else). The difference is that this time it's paying dividends for them, along with their reputation as THE import crossover brand.

Storz wrote:

WildScotsRacing wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: I think it's funny that they think they are "more upscale" now. That isn't what anyone else thinks. Not even Kia owners.

No kidding! Isn't that what the Infinity brand is for???

Infiniti = Nissan Mazda doesn't have an upscale brand that I am aware of

I guess I worded my point badly. Which is: If Mazda wants to do some up-scale marketing, they should consider creating their own Infinty/Acura/Lexus.

WildScotsRacing wrote:

Storz wrote:

WildScotsRacing wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: I think it's funny that they think they are "more upscale" now. That isn't what anyone else thinks. Not even Kia owners.

No kidding! Isn't that what the Infinity brand is for???

Infiniti = Nissan Mazda doesn't have an upscale brand that I am aware of

I guess I worded my point badly. Which is: If Mazda wants to do some up-scale marketing, they should consider creating their own Infinty/Acura/Lexus.

Been done.

Links

Did not work out too well....

CyberEric wrote: I get that it's a tough time for Mazda in terms of sales and that they are nearly the smallest Who else is even close?

I would argue Subaru.....WRX, STi, BRZ...and arguably the Crosstrek

In reply to irish44j:

Yeah, Subaru is bigger in the US than Mazda in terms of sales, according to Car and Driver's sales numbers, but they are also very small. It's a good point, Subaru still builds "immature" performance cars and yet that doesn't seem to tarnish their image with certain "mature" buyers.

JtspellS wrote:

WildScotsRacing wrote:

Storz wrote:

WildScotsRacing wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: I think it's funny that they think they are "more upscale" now. That isn't what anyone else thinks. Not even Kia owners.

No kidding! Isn't that what the Infinity brand is for???

Infiniti = Nissan Mazda doesn't have an upscale brand that I am aware of

I guess I worded my point badly. Which is: If Mazda wants to do some up-scale marketing, they should consider creating their own Infinty/Acura/Lexus.

Been done. Links Did not work out too well....

OK, so bad name choice. That isn't the first time I've thought the Japanese don't always do Greek names for cars very well...

pointofdeparture wrote: In reply to WildScotsRacing: If more advertising equaled more sales, the Chrysler 200 would have been the best-selling car in the country. Unfortunately there's no correlation.

One word: Edsel.

The supply side does not drive the economy, people won't buy what they don't want. They only do that if they have no other alternatives.

Storz wrote:

WildScotsRacing wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: I think it's funny that they think they are "more upscale" now. That isn't what anyone else thinks. Not even Kia owners.

No kidding! Isn't that what the Infinity brand is for???

Infiniti = Nissan Mazda doesn't have an upscale brand that I am aware of

I think he was talking about Enfini, which was never sold outside of Japan.

pointofdeparture wrote: In reply to Knurled: I have owned two XTs and more GL/DLs than I can count; believe me, I know my Subarus. I grew up in them. But the Legacy generation that started in 2010 is generally seen as Subaru once again trying to out-Camry the competition (abandoned a lot of the Euro-esque athleticism of the previous model if nothing else). The difference is that this time it's paying dividends for them, along with their reputation as THE import crossover brand.

The difference now is that, in the interim 20 years, Subaru developed an image of being sporty and fun and earth-huggy. Which ironically was the original selling point for SUVs in the 80s.

Now they can sell bland cars with a nameplate on them that makes the bland people who buy them feel less bland. Camrys are the contextual equivalent of station wagons to the Subaru's SUV. They do the same job, and they do it better, but it's not projecting the right image.

Order is everything. First build a strong image that bland people want to project, THEN make the bland cars.