So I can Wire a car ,do a good Job of it and expect it to work correctly, but when I see other peoples RATS NESTS, I freeze up, get mad at them, then Mad At Myself for being so stupid. usually the next day I go ahead and fix it. I'll try Anything and expect it to work...... eventually. "There is Nothing To Fear But Fear Itself" W.Churchhill PS. having ALL the right tools is a big factor,I do not but thats my normal.
My first big mechanical job was my brother and I installing the front end from a 1973 Ford LTD onto a 1977 Ford LTD that my brother messed up with a deer. I was 16 and he was 17. The junkyard swap book said that it didn't fit, but we had a broken '77 and a parts '73, so we did it. It turns out that there were two bolts at the cowl that we couldn't install, because there were no holes.
I always thought that that car would've messed with people's heads, had we ever bothered to paint the white front end brown.
In reply to mazdeuce:
I think you would be very disappointed at the skill level of your average "professional" mechanic. The OEMs are having to deal with such skill level by micro-managing almost every aspect of the repair. After watching you handle the build of the grosh I would hire you for my shop any day.
In reply to appliance_racer:
I'm pretty sure you'd get sick of seeing me looking at a problem and drinking coffee while I thought about it. 
What I long for is people dropping off old race cars that need to be sorted. The problem solving and learning could keep me happy for a long time. I don't even want to get paid, I just want to play with cool stuff.
Bobzilla wrote: Transmissions are my Achilles heel. I did tear apart a siezed 4L65 once.... it didn't quite go back together correctly. That was OK, it was just a core at that point anyway. Oh, and Carbs. I think carbs were designed by the same black magic witchcraftery as auto trans. I'm sure there are animal sacrifices involved.
I differentiate between early and late carbs.
Early carbs are pretty straightforward. Then things like economy and emissions became important and carbs became a nightmare.
If anything, I suffer more from the opposite of mechanical intimidation. My old man was a mechanical genius, and could fix anything with anything. A real life MacGuyver type. All that made me think I could do anything, and so, I dreamed of buying rusty crap, body swapping Chevettes and Karmann Ghias, and many other bad ideas. Several abandoned projects later, I still couldn't pull any of this stuff off. I started welding at age 30, and have moved forward by leaps and bounds ever since. About the same time, I discovered GRM, and the Ro-spit. Here was a guy publishing a magazine, as well as living all those childish dreams I just couldn't shake. This engine in that car. Doesn't fit? Notch the frame.
Later, I discovered this very forum with tons of crazies doing all these wacky things. Bat vans, body swapped Volvos, V-12 MGBs and all other variety of other crazed mechanical tomfoolery. Someday, I'll complete one of these wacky projects myself.
In reply to mazdeuce:
If a man put it together, a man can take it apart. (Including the machine a man built to build the car)
I've been wrenching on cars for over a decade, have done numerous installs, and even freelanced articles about them to magazines.
And I still have zero confidence. 
Standing back with a cup of coffee is at times the most important step.
I consider myself a less eloquent mazdeuce. I am "the car guy" among my family's circle of friends. I teach the kids how to drive stick, how to change oil, how to R&R brakes. At the same time, I teach them how things work and why (at least at some basic level) why they are designed and built the way they are. They are listening, and they need us to teach them. The world needs us to teach them. Every day I read this forum, I am glad that I found it because I learn so much from all of you.
Trackmouse wrote: In reply to mazdeuce: If a man put it together, a man can take it apart. (Including the machine a man built to build the car)
Taking it apart is the easy bit. It's putting it back together again that's the trick. :)
The worst part is, I really dislike working on cars. But, I want to drive a fast car, and finding a mechanic that you can trust and afford is damn near impossible. It really sucks to be good at something you hate.
I think you would be very disappointed at the skill level of your average "professional" mechanic.
+1000000. It's saddening. I often take for granted that the main reason i know as much as i do is that i'm genuinely interested in the subject and came to it from my curiosity first, with the career as a side effect. In the earlier part of my learning curve, i studied obsessively for fun in my free time. That's not true for many people, and it's hard for me to wrap my head around how any of them could ever force themselves to become anything close to what I am as a tech or diagnostician without the same level of curiosity and interest. It would be a tremendous feat of willpower. As a vocational trainer I come across a shockingly small proportion of students who are passionate about the subject. Many of them are just looking for 'easy' money with a relatively small intellectual commitment (the financial commitment is certainly not small at my school), and to be honest many of them are probably looking in the wrong place.
On the other hand, it's hard for me to recommend the auto repair field as a source of income for a true fanatic like myself. The level of knowledge i have in my industry would have me pulling well past six figures in many other industries. I make better than average money for an automotive tradesperson in South Texas, but I still constantly find examples of other people wandering into their field after college/trade school like babes in the wood and landing jobs paying more than i can easily make after ~17 years. If you actually want to touch cars but not subject your body to the constant stress of a 'production environment', there is a fairly low ceiling. Most of the bigger money requires you to put down the tools.
There is probably a happy middle ground of interest leading to skill level leading to a commensurate income, but I doubt many of the people working in auto repair are in that goldilocks bracket.
Luckily for me my current teaching job allows me to make an amount of money that wouldn't be embarassing to a tech with my qualifications while still getting to turn wrenches and being less physically demanding. Sharing the passion with the rare few who are receptive to it is definitely helpful.
AngryCorvair wrote: Standing back with a cup of coffee is at times *the* most important step.
Quoted for truth. I can't count the number of times I have walked out to the shop and stared at something for a while without lifting a tool. Sometimes that is followed by a flurry of activity. Sometimes I just lock the shop up and go back to the house.
In reply to Vigo:
I had a large response to this but I'll save the explanation for my upcoming build thread.
I view myself as a middling mechanic at best, however, I am very very good at gathering information so I can form a generally correct hypothesis on what went wrong within a system.
I used to work with guys that would break out the parts cannon every single time something went wrong because they've "seen it before." I usually started with the fault isolation manual. After you replace a part for the third time I'm pretty sure it isn't a rash of bad parts off the shelf (and your customer gets pissed that you've de-preserved three of their 15 thousand dollar prop governors.)
I'd rather drink coffee and read documentation then do it right the first time. Performing a job four times then have to explain why I shortened the shelf-life of perfectly good parts to someone is funny to watch someone else do. I'd personally rather be spared that ass chewing.
Vigo wrote: This is one of the things that i mention to my friends but not to my students. As an instructor there are constantly times where I seem to swoop in and fix a problem in a way that seems effortless and look like a hero to the students. Most of the time the majority of what is separating my actions from theirs is the confidence i have in doing them. This is especially true when swinging hammers at cars.
As a mechanic/technician of over 50 years and technical college instructor of 30 years I have had similar experiences with students. When they required assistance or told me they could not do a procedure, I would pull out my magic pocket screw driver, wave it around and proceed to fix/repair/assemble/disassemble/adjust/remove or install their concern. Then, I would return the project to the original condition and have them do it. I was always attempting to inspire confidence through comments or example. So much so that some of the students started calling me Yoda.
I was servicing/repairing cars/trucks before I knew theory of automotive systems. After learning theory, I became much better at diagnostics.
Vigo wrote:I think you would be very disappointed at the skill level of your average "professional" mechanic.+1000000. It's saddening. I often take for granted that the main reason i know as much as i do is that i'm genuinely interested in the subject and came to it from my curiosity first, with the career as a side effect. In the earlier part of my learning curve, i studied obsessively for fun in my free time. That's not true for many people, and it's hard for me to wrap my head around how any of them could ever force themselves to become anything close to what I am as a tech or diagnostician without the same level of curiosity and interest. It would be a tremendous feat of willpower. As a vocational trainer I come across a shockingly small proportion of students who are passionate about the subject. Many of them are just looking for 'easy' money with a relatively small intellectual commitment (the financial commitment is certainly not small at my school), and to be honest many of them are probably looking in the wrong place. On the other hand, it's hard for me to recommend the auto repair field as a source of income for a true fanatic like myself. The level of knowledge i have in my industry would have me pulling well past six figures in many other industries. I make better than average money for an automotive tradesperson in South Texas, but I still constantly find examples of other people wandering into their field after college/trade school like babes in the wood and landing jobs paying more than i can easily make after ~17 years. If you actually want to touch cars but not subject your body to the constant stress of a 'production environment', there is a fairly low ceiling. Most of the bigger money requires you to put down the tools.
Well stated, as an automotive instructor, I heard automotive dealer principals/general managers/shop managers telling us they needed more techs. However, the entry level compensation was little more than fast food/tire shop/oil change employees. The cost of two years of education and purchasing the tools for that level of compensation is difficult to take.
I found that the less nice a car is the more willing I am to tear it apart. I had a set of FM coilovers that were left uninstalled over the period of 2 Miatas. The 2nd Miata wasn't nearly as nice as the first and that's when a buddy of mine and I looked at few YouTube videos and gave it a whirl. It ended up talking us about 14 hours to finish the install due to rust and putting some components in upside-down, but I have no fear of suspension components now that I went through that ordeal.
Vigo, you need to go to work for Jay Leno, or find your own local Leno. I gotta think that his mechs get paid enough to live comfortably.
I have loved to learn new things since I was a kid. Some things I've been able to figure out on my own. But there are many more things I wouldn't have had the courage to try without some very key people to show me the way. Like working on cars. I'm very grateful to all the folks who have taken the time and effort to help me along.
In the last five or so years I've learned the most rewarding part of learning a new skill is being able to share that skill with someone else.
I think I'm on the wrong end of the intimidation scale. I've firmly convinced myself that if you never do that thing you don't know how to do, you will never know how to do it.
"sure, I can figure out how to rebuild a Dana 70"
1.5 hours later, the truck is backed into the garage on jack stands with its guts spread out all over the place and I start having second thoughts about shimming the new carrier, but by this point there's no way the axle is coming out of the garage because the truck that can't move is in the middle of the door.
Eventually that truck did roll again though. I don't think I'm lucky enough to pull that particular stunt off a second time though.
My problem is that Intimidation PLUS the lack of discipline to set a certain number of hours/week or night of the week to actually DO what I'm supposed to learn... I'm thinking a Youtube video on something like, "You have a new (Insert Tool Name Here)? Here are six starter tasks to try to learn how to use it"
Toyman01 wrote:AngryCorvair wrote: Standing back with a cup of coffee is at times *the* most important step.Quoted for truth. I can't count the number of times I have walked out to the shop and stared at something for a while without lifting a tool. Sometimes that is followed by a flurry of activity. Sometimes I just lock the shop up and go back to the house.
"TEA!" quoth Binky
My ex has a 2003 R53 MCS she bought new (and still has). As some of you know, these cars are prone to strut tower mushrooming - thin upper strut mount sheet metal and thin chassis sheet metal combined with harsh northeast potholes mean this is a chronic issue. When she first learned of this, we took the car down to Helix (MINI specialist shop) in Philly where the owner pulled the struts out, straightened the mounts in a vise and pounded the chassis metal flat again with a block and hammer. Having done this dozens of times, he did this was us watching and B.S.ing about life, MINI's and various things automotive. We were probably there a couple of hours and I think he charged her $50.
How to prevent the mushrooming? Well, today there are a few ways, but at the time, a MINI aftermarket company M7 was selling "tower reinforcement" plates - essentially, a strut brace without the cross brace. She bought a set and I installed them.
Fast forward a few months. Now due to reasons beyond explanation, she hates M7 and it bugged her to have M7 parts on her car, so when another company Craven offered their own version (Strut Tower Defenders) she bought them.
A week or so later, the new plates arrive. It's a Tuesday night. Swapping them out should be easy. Don't even need to jack up the car - just open the bonnet, remove the three nuts on each side and swap the plates. Should be an easy 15 min job.
I remove the nuts on the passenger side - and the plate won't come off. WTF? The strut mount mushroomed. Again. WITH the M7 reinforcement plate. Both sides.
Sonofa...
So at 7:30 on a Tuesday night, I jack up the front of the car (this is before I bought the lift) and proceed to pull the struts out of the car to make everything flat again before installing the Craven plates.
Around 9pm as I'm closing everything up and lowering the car, it hit me - I had just torn the front suspension of my g/f's car apart - the car she needs to get to work the next day - without even giving a thought to the idea I wouldn't get it back together in time. I just did it.
While I readily admit I still have much to learn about wrenching on cars, I definitely moved to different level that night.
outasite wrote:Vigo wrote:Well stated, as an automotive instructor, I heard automotive dealer principals/general managers/shop managers telling us they needed more techs. However, the entry level compensation was little more than fast food/tire shop/oil change employees. The cost of two years of education and purchasing the tools for that level of compensation is difficult to take.I think you would be very disappointed at the skill level of your average "professional" mechanic.+1000000. It's saddening. I often take for granted that the main reason i know as much as i do is that i'm genuinely interested in the subject and came to it from my curiosity first, with the career as a side effect. In the earlier part of my learning curve, i studied obsessively for fun in my free time. That's not true for many people, and it's hard for me to wrap my head around how any of them could ever force themselves to become anything close to what I am as a tech or diagnostician without the same level of curiosity and interest. It would be a tremendous feat of willpower. As a vocational trainer I come across a shockingly small proportion of students who are passionate about the subject. Many of them are just looking for 'easy' money with a relatively small intellectual commitment (the financial commitment is certainly not small at my school), and to be honest many of them are probably looking in the wrong place. On the other hand, it's hard for me to recommend the auto repair field as a source of income for a true fanatic like myself. The level of knowledge i have in my industry would have me pulling well past six figures in many other industries. I make better than average money for an automotive tradesperson in South Texas, but I still constantly find examples of other people wandering into their field after college/trade school like babes in the wood and landing jobs paying more than i can easily make after ~17 years. If you actually want to touch cars but not subject your body to the constant stress of a 'production environment', there is a fairly low ceiling. Most of the bigger money requires you to put down the tools.
All true, all sad. As a shop owner, I'm angered by the amount of money my techs earn, and also angered at the return on investment I receive. This has become a hugely expensive and difficult trade...
On Wednesday, a Volvo presents with an extended crank when its -20. Test draw with my thousand dollar tester, scan with my eight thousand dollar dedicated Volvo scan tool, find a code for erratic crank sensor signal and a slightly high draw on the starter. Perform a voltage drop test on the cables, discover a mild failure at one end of the battery cable from the underhood terminal to the starter. Replace, set car out overnight. Next morning, roll thousand dollar load tester outside, find starter draw still high, along with extended crank. Hook up eight thousand dollar scanner, find it has reset ecm5000 code for erratic crank signal. Bring out two thousand dollar labscope, check signal from crank sensor, and see what appears to be interference from a slightly worn starter motor interfering with crank signal. New starter, interference gone, starts fine next morning.
How long did it take me to learn all that E36 M3, buy all those expensive tools, and figure the problem out? How much can I charge for that before people start talking about how "Jims good, but he's expensive, so I only take the tough ones to him. I get the brakes fixed at Meinike."
I live and breathe cars, and I hate them.
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