Megabuck Ticket

Not grassroots.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230

ah the Swiss, so scrupulous about money, other people's - no matter the means of appropriation.

Just doesn't seem fair charging people different ticket prices depending on their income.

jlm_photo wrote: Just doesn't seem fair charging people different ticket prices depending on their income.

Why? A big fine to a poor person should be a big fine to a rich person, too- it's a peanlty for breaking the law. If not, then the penalties are worse for those with lower incomes....

Or, why should the rich not feel pain when they break the rules as much as the poor do?

Seems quite fair to me. More fair.

BTW, the Finns do the same thing.

I think it seems a lot more fair. This isn't completely relevant, but filling up my truck with gas is a huge, monumental hit on my personal assets, and it's no big deal to most "grownups."

points not money. those don't discriminate and hurt each one fairly. I don't think the swiss penalties would pass the equal protection sniff test.

jlm_photo wrote: Just doesn't seem fair charging people different ticket prices depending on their income.

Seems perfectly fair to be honest, why isn't it? The point is to make it hurt so you don't do it again

Grtechguy wrote:

jlm_photo wrote: Just doesn't seem fair charging people different ticket prices depending on their income.

Seems perfectly fair to be honest, why isn't it? The point is to make it hurt so you don't do it again

I see your point but this seems to be a little extreme. Maybe if a government is going to do this there should be some kind of cap. Or maybe I'm totally wrong and I should shut my mouth. You know what they say of opinions.

Grtechguy wrote:

jlm_photo wrote: Just doesn't seem fair charging people different ticket prices depending on their income.

Seems perfectly fair to be honest, why isn't it? The point is to make it hurt so you don't do it again

Commie pinko red liberals do tend to think that way, yes.

How about, they confiscate his AMG status-symbol for a month, and he's forced to drive some econobox (Fiat Punto, Fiesta, whatever) for that period.

wouldn't some cities here in the US and Canada crush that car for racing?

Not real sure I agree with income based fines, that's too much like jacking income taxes up on high income people 'just because they can afford it'. Yeah, go ahead board progressives, pitch a fit. Just make sure you include taxing the hell out of George Soros in your arguments.

But at the same time, going 170 KPH over the limit on public roads? Uh uh, I have to agree that can't be tolerated no matter how much money the driver has. That's not a matter of economics, it's a matter of risking the lives of others.

Thank you Jensenman...I'm glad someone on here agrees with me.

nutherjrfan wrote: points not money. those don't discriminate and hurt each one fairly. I don't think the swiss penalties would pass the equal protection sniff test.

Points don't stop people from doing things that they would do anyway. I just means that when their license gets revoked they will keep driving without a license. I have seen it happen too many times.

alfadriver wrote: Why? A big fine to a poor person should be a big fine to a rich person, too- it's a peanlty for breaking the law. If not, then the penalties are worse for those with lower incomes.... Or, why should the rich not feel pain when they break the rules as much as the poor do?

What about the low-income guy who hits you, totals your car, then gets away scott-free because he has no insurance and nothing of value you can go after for restitution? Perhaps if you can't afford the consequences of your actions you should drive more carefully and it should hurt you more when you violate the law? Not saying a rich guy should be able to break the law with impunity, but since the new American Dream is to get rich via lawsuit, if the guy has $ and screws up then maybe someone else get's their meal card punched.

And who decides what metric is used to calculate someone's worth for these fines? For the half of Americans who don't pay taxes at all I am considered very wealthy, as indicated by my giant annual tax bill, but to me or anyone making more than me I'm barely getting by myself.

The proper logic here is that a ticket shouldn't bankrupt anyone, not that it should bankrupt rich and poor alike.

Jensenman wrote: Not real sure I agree with income based fines, that's too much like jacking income taxes up on high income people 'just because they can afford it'.

A speeding ticket (about ~$200) would absolutely destroy me financially.

For other people, $200 is the day's lunch budget.

Likewise, if there were a flat tax, I'd probably owe the government more than I made, while other people would hardly notice.

Sorry for being poor at you.

In reply to Knurled:

You have a very poor understanding of the Flat Tax.

Jensenman wrote: Not real sure I agree with income based fines, that's too much like jacking income taxes up on high income people 'just because they can afford it'. Yeah, go ahead board progressives, pitch a fit. Just make sure you include taxing the hell out of George Soros in your arguments. But at the same time, going 170 KPH over the limit on public roads? Uh uh, I have to agree that can't be tolerated no matter how much money the driver has. That's not a matter of economics, it's a matter of risking the lives of others.

Don't look at is as a tax- it's a penalty. You break the law, you have to pay a penalty. It's not "just because they can afford it" it's because the penalty is not ballanced. if you throw both in jail for a month- regardless- that would be equal. But a $200 fine is easy to pay if you make $200k a year, but not so much if you make $20k a year.

Our problems is prespective- we see speeding tikets handed out like candy, so that a municipality can get a new courthouse. Which is total BS. I think it sucks that many cities voted to increase the police force in the wake of 9/11, only to have them hand out speeding tickets and not helping robberies, rapes, murders, etc.

In reply to MrJoshua:

I was not referring to the Flat Tax (although that system does have its own problems), just a "flat" tax like the way the "transportation tax" works.

When the speed limits are placed so low that normal traffic flow is well above them, then speeding fines are a tax.

oldopelguy wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Why? A big fine to a poor person should be a big fine to a rich person, too- it's a peanlty for breaking the law. If not, then the penalties are worse for those with lower incomes.... Or, why should the rich not feel pain when they break the rules as much as the poor do?

What about the low-income guy who hits you, totals your car, then gets away scott-free because he has no insurance and nothing of value you can go after for restitution? Perhaps if you can't afford the consequences of your actions you should drive more carefully and it should hurt you more when you violate the law? Not saying a rich guy should be able to break the law with impunity, but since the new American Dream is to get rich via lawsuit, if the guy has $ and screws up then maybe someone else get's their meal card punched. And who decides what metric is used to calculate someone's worth for these fines? For the half of Americans who don't pay taxes at all I am considered very wealthy, as indicated by my giant annual tax bill, but to me or anyone making more than me I'm barely getting by myself.

But you are saying that. Or at least if a person of means breaks the law, and is just handed a fine that is equal to that of less means, then the penalty they face for braking that law is less- so single fines mean a sliding scale for penalties.

Plus, this is a speeing ticket, not a wreck. I don't know what the Swiss penalty for causing an accident is, so I can't tell you if it's fair or not.

I sure don't get why people think rich people should be able get away with murder (and they can, since they can afford the best of the best lawyers). Whereas the poor can find themselves in jail because they can't pay for the lawyer who can demand the right tests to proove you are innocent.

In this case- explain to me in simple words why rich people should have less relative penalty for gross speeding than a poor person? What makes them special? AFAIK, being rich does not get you more rights in the Consitituion and Bill of Rights.

alfadriver wrote: </cite. AFAIK, being rich does not get you more rights in the Consitituion and Bill of Rights.

That mention about "equal protection under the law" is a pesky thing, isn't it?

I don't know the specifics of the Swiss system, but I do know that I'll never drive any of their roads in any car.

I really think you have to look at it from a different angle than the "rich vs. poor" one. What is the real intent of the people creating the law in the first place? On the surface, a speed limit is a public safety measure..but how it's structured and applied says a lot about the attitudes of the people that created it.

In this case, it sounds like the Swiss honestly wish to discourage speeding (especially at such high speeds). Here in Georgia, it actually does function as an ersatz tax. Politicians get elected on a platform containing "low taxes for everyone!!", and after they're elected..they end up in the House & Senate, and get blindsided by the fact they still need to fund the goverment. This leads to some very strange enforcement.

Gonna shock you now..this lib'rul is about to take the rich guys' side of the argument. Georgia (at least in Atlanta Metro) wants you to speed. LEOs don't even look at vehicles doing 10mph over the limit-or even 20 over when the limit drops down to 55mph inside "The Perimeter" (Interstate 285, our loop I-state). They are looking for rich people moving quickly. They know that giving a large ticket to a poor person means costing the state money in court fees and eventually incarceration, but that a rich person will merely pay the fine.

When I'm in one of my old VWs, I am invisible to law enforcement, even though I drive 75mph on every stretch of I-state here, regardless of speed limit(the black Corrado is a small exception, since it's in much better shape than the other two). I have come up over a hill while passing a $40,000 SUV, seen the officer pull the trigger on the lazer, sweat the inevitable, and wached as he pulled over the SUV I had passed!! This is not a new phenomena driven by the new "Super Speeder" law..it's been a part of driving around here for so long that I haven't carried a radar detector in over 10yrs.

Funny thing..the only couple of tickets I've recieved in the last few years were all in other states (forgot I wasn't in Atlanta, drove like "normal" for here). Never would have noticed how absolutely berkeleying nuts the situation here is until the last out of state tic I recieved (70 in a 55). I was riding with an old high school friend through the state I grew up in (NC), and his eyes expanded to the size of dinner plates when I said, "..what the hell did he pull me over for? I was only going 15 over!"

I strongly disagree that the financial punishment should be proportional to income.

At one point in my life a $200 ticket would have busted me too. Now it wouldn't. What's the point of working hard, if you are taxed, levied, punished such that your income is normalized? That's busllE36 M3.

On the other hand, this guy should be made to pick up trash or spend a few weekends in the pokey, just like everyone else.

Datsun1500 wrote: I drive a gray Honda Odyssey. I could pass a cop at 20 over with my ass hanging out of the window and he would not see me.

Aw, damn..D. Don't say stuff like that when I have a mouthfull of beer!

Also, any good tips for getting beer out of a keyboard?