Methanol engines?

I am thinking about buying a motorcycle that burns methanol. I know nothing of the stuff. Where do I buy it? How long does it keep? Does it eat all the soft parts of the fuel system?

Methinks you have to buy that stuff from a race shop. It's a rather volatile substance, isn't it? I don't imagine you could ship it...

Methanol is volatile nasty stuff. It does eat rubber (way more than ethanol), and even attacks steel gas tanks. If you get it, I would look into using ethanol (E100) or E85 instead. Calibration of the carb/EFI should be pretty close for E100.

Methanex sells it DIRT cheap ($1.32/gallon Gulf Coast price) so long as you buy it 60 gallons at a time. It's natural-gas derived; for the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline you're paying around $2.

It burns very well once the engine starts. Allowable compression ratios in large spark-ignition engines are as high as 17:1 (Offenhauser, 1955) and slightly rich mixtures can give exceptional power figures. As there is only one component to the fuel, it will not have the light fractions gasoline has to enable easy cold starting. A fuel heater may be hazardous if done improperly but will save much kicking or auxiliary battery use. It absorbs a lot of heat to vaporize, on the same order as water, and Indycars were able to do away with intercoolers when running it.

Methanol is hygroscopic; do not let it sit outside of a very well sealed metal container for long. Motorcycle tanks are inadequate for this purpose; calculate the fuel you'll burn and don't leave a huge reserve before filling it before a ride. It attacks magnesium, aluminum, zinc, and rubber ferociously; in many race vehicles "pickling" with gasoline is performed by hooking a fuel hose to a small gas tank and running until it stalls. Methanol-impervious systems exist.

There are a couple spectacular safety advantages to methanol. First off, it absorbs a lot of heat to vaporize and is difficult to ignite. This prevents some fires and definitely slows growth of fires involving large leaks or tanks. Second, water will put a methanol fire out! Methanol mixes with water in any fraction and the heat required to boil the water-methanol mix can quickly stop most fires if enough water is uses. A methanol fire is invisible but not otherwise difficult to detect - it is loud, hot, and smells of formaldehyde.

I hate to ask a silly question, but why?

edit: sounds cool but difficult to use.

Like this, but dirtier.

I had no idea. I know that speedway bikes run methanol, but did not know it was a thing w/ trials bikes.

I raced "Stock heavy alcohol Briggs" karts for a few years. I recall the main jet orifice was a 3/32" hole, and that one could use most of the 2 quart tank in 6 laps of a bit more than 1/4 mile.

We'd run them dry then fog w/ WD40 at the end of the night, every time.

Also - don't get Methanol in your eyes. It's not as bad as peroxide hardener for polyester resin, but it will do at minimum, irreversible damage.

Also-also - Cool bike!

One of the by-products of burning methanol is formaldeyhyde as mentioned and it may take some getting use to to stand anywhere near an engine running on the stuff. As for fire issues, the stuff does light off reasonably easily. Last time I was near a pit fire, the tank that spilled was 40 feet away and I could feel the heat about the same time as i felt the concussion wave. No visible flames... at least it can be put out with chemical or water extinguishers. Gasoline pickling is a must if the system is going to sit more than a few hours. The aluminum.methanol reaction leaves a nasty white powdery substance that will clog smalll orifices and filters in no time at all.

I buy Methanol from a local company that makes windshield washer fluid. I take my barrel to them and they fill it up.

Since its a Honda engine with a compression ratio up around 14, I'm wondering if I can double up on the head gaskets, re jet and burn regular two stroke mix.

Good news. Turns out it runs on Cam2 and synthetic two stroke oil.

Running on methanol is a real pain in the butt.

You can't leave it in the fuels system or all kinds of problem crop up

We used to run it in the modified. Oh the fumes . they made your eyes water.

And don't drink it. It'll make you drunk but also blind you. Antidote is ethanol.

Methanol carries far fewer BTUs per gallon than gasoline. You'll be running in the 6:1 A/F ratio range. That means massive modification to the fuel system.

All that fuel washes down the cylinders too. Probably not the end of the world in a 2-stroke, but dragsters run one pass starting with 8 qts of oil, and end up with 10 qts of sludge after that 1/4 mile pass.

Methanol carries oxygen in its molecule, which is part of the reason for the high fuel ratio. That is also one of the reasons its so dangerous. You can't snuff it out. It will continue burning by itself without external oxygen input. It also burns with an invisible flame.

In order to make any power with it, you need sky-high compression ratios which may not be possible with a 2-stroke. Since airflow decreases with compression, you may hit a wall with airflow before you get enough compression.

Having said all of that.... WHEN WILL IT BE DONE? CAN I RIDE IT? This thing drips cool.

curtis73 wrote: Having said all of that.... WHEN WILL IT BE DONE? CAN I RIDE IT? This thing drips cool.

Once again, I have since been told that it runs on Cam2 and synthetic two stroke premix, not methanol.

It's owned by one of my best friends. I had forgotten that he had it. When I mentioned that I might be looking to build up a trail bike he said, "How about the Montesa?".

I'm going down to take another look in the morning and try to figure out a price. There are no condition issues and he has all the paperwork for it, as well as some spares. I suspect that the deal will get done.

Also, its parked next to the CB400F that I gave him ten years ago.

In reply to curtis73: I think that you are confusing Nitromethane with Methanol.
Both nasty stuff.

So, the deal has been done and I brought home the non-methanol burning Montesa today. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble uploading photos, so that will have to wait. I'll start a new thread in Sprockets when I get the pictures working.