MGB-GT: Engine choices, what to do?

Edit: ZOMBIE THREAD, I ressurected it myself. I'm still waffling. Go to page 5 for new discussion.

Alright GRM. I have a long-term project MGB-GT. I drove it a couple years in h.s. and then the clutch went out (11 years ago). I took the engine out for a 'while I'm in there' rebuild (oh to be young and dumb). Engine was rebuilt by me and promptly threw a rod less than 100 miles into break-in. I thrashed a used and worn-out engine into it so I could drive it for my wedding, which I did, but I put less than 500 miles on that motor and now it is smoking and knocking like an SOB. My wedding was 2 years ago, it has been sitting in my garage engine mostly unbolted since. So now it sits. I love the car, and I would love to just be able to drive it. I'm absolutely stuck with deciding what to do. Here are my wants and likes: - I want to be able to drive it. I'm not really going to race it other than occasional rallyx/autox. - I want to spend little money. - I want to go a little faster than stock but that is not the priority. I do have the overdrive trans on this so highway driving is just fine, and its not a rocket but can keep up in normal driving. - I really like the mechanical nature of the car. Carbs, mechanical advance distributors, mechanical valve adjustments, etc. Not because it is better, but because it is cool. - I really really dislike the MGB 1800. Mostly just the Siamese-port reverse-flow head. I would love a 4cyl DOHC with sidedrafts and points. - I really really really, really dislike the chevy 2.8 or 3.1 or 3.4 from a camaro. UGH. Just. won't. do. it. Here are the 3 things I keep flipping between: - buy new rod (only need the one), bearings, and engine gasket set, but my 'rebuilt' one back together correctly and go. Probably the easiest fastest option to get on the road. But then I'm stuck with the MGB 1800. - grab a miata 1.6 + trans for nearly free from someone swapping their miata, and bolt it up with carbs. Would be a bunch of custom work, but the engine is cool, the trans is GREAT, and it would be more powerful than the MGB 1800. More work though. - build a hybrid out of the big electric motor and GSXR 1000 motor that I have sitting in my garage. I started buying the parts for this, and I think it would be the most awesome, but I am worried that I won't drive the car for 10 more years. Plus, I think there is a high likelyhood that the functionality of the car as a car actually might go down (like no one but me would be able to drive it). I literally wake up each morning thoroughly convinced that I will follow through with a different one of those three paths. I change my mind on a daily basis. This has been happening since I parked the car 2 ish years ago. HELP!

Why not the buick/rover v8?

You've seen the one Keith built right?

Tim Baxter wrote: Why not the buick/rover v8?

Good question. When I bought the car in high school this is what I wanted. Unfortunately its the transmission that is the holdup here. There aren't that many good options (that I know of). I think people usually adapt a T5 somehow. The stock MGB trans can be adapted too, but the v8 will tear it up quickly.

What would you use for a trans behind the buick v8? I'm all ears.

thatsnowinnebago wrote: You've seen the one Keith built right?

Yep. A few days ago I got the idea that I would do an LS with an auto and take the car to the challenge. Then I looked at his build and saw all the work he did. That would take me 10 years.

The Miata motor (1.6 or 1.8, both use the same trans) is probably your best bet. They are nearly free kinda cheap and pretty durable. Fab up a carb system for it and ditch all the extra sensors and whatnot.

if you are going to use the Buick/rover v8.. use the 3.9. Compared to the 4.0 and the 4.6, they were nearly bulletproof.

However, as Ky mentioned, I think the Miata's engine would be a great choice, it would not upset the balance of the car and 140+ hp is more than enough for a lightweight MG

I would put a Zetec and a Ford Type E 4 speed. And maybe look for the Type 9 from a Merkur to get a 5 speed with overdrive. That's mostly because I have the Zetec and the 4 speed already. The Lotus Seven/Locost guys use these engine/trans.

I need to get rid of them. Want to buy them? I'm up in Appleton, WI.

RossD wrote: I would put a Zetec and a Ford Type E 4 speed. And maybe look for the Type 9 from a Merkur to get a 5 speed with overdrive. That's mostly because I have the Zetec and the 4 speed already. The Lotus Seven/Locost guys use these engine/trans. I need to get rid of them. Want to buy them? I'm up in Appleton, WI.

hmmm. Interesting.

Zetec though (correct me if I am wrong) in a longitudinal config has a front sump oil pan. This means the swap now includes major modification to the MGB cross member.

But I have long thought if my MGB drove like my focus SVT that would be the nearly perfect DD.

Robbie wrote: What would you use for a trans behind the buick v8? I'm all ears.

I'd use the Rover LT77 gearbox out of a TR8. I believe they were used in other cars as well, but I'm not sure how hard/expensive they are to source. I've driven/ridden in a few MG Rover V8 conversions, and the torque is nice. Also makes a nice relaxed highway cruiser. This swap has been done many times. The biggest issue might be finding clearance for the headers, but block huggers exist so that it's not necessary to cut the wheel arches.

What about a Buick 3800/T5 combo out of a 4th-gen Camaro/Firebird? That seems like it ought be peppy enough for an MGB GT while being fairly compact and cheap. And that engine is pretty tough and has decent aftermarket support for down the road.

You and I agree with this statement:

I really really dislike the MGB 1800. Mostly just the Siamese-port reverse-flow head. I would love a 4cyl DOHC with sidedrafts and points.

I have a perfectly good MGB GT that I no longer drive because of the disdain I have developed towards that POS boat anchor. Not that there is anything wrong with it, I just hate everythig about it.

You need to go here:

http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/list.php?40

For non traditional, look to the Non V8 Miata swaps.

Duratec bolts to Miata gearbox Honda V6 is being put in Miata using Miata gearbox Ecotec is being put in Miata with adapter plate to mate gearbox

There was a father son Zetec swap on the MG Swap board that was budget friendly.

If you can fab at all, a ratty mustang donor gets you a long ways into a MGB 302 swap; might be more popular than Buick at this point.

If you only want to spend a couple of grand to get back on the road, then call Bob at Brittek and get an engine rebuild kit.

http://www.brittek.com/majorenginekit.html

We have taken the guesswork out of engine rebuilding by putting together the best engine kit on the market. From years of engine building experience, we designed this major rebuild package to handle all the typically weak areas of a high mileage MGB. By choosing high or low compression pistons and any of our street performance cams you determine the horse power you want your engine to develop. You will be amazed at the power and drivability you can get out of your engine!. We can help you choose the correct components that will work best with your driving style. Notice that valves and guides are not included in this kit. Many B's have had head problems before major engine work was needed and often tired engines have rebuilt heads on them. I your head hasn't been done - see our Head Update Kit. Also notice that the kit includes valve springs, a rocker shaft and bushings. New springs are a must to get the power from your new cam. The rockertrain, a weak area, is too often ignored, causing that typical MGB valve clatter. Call or email us, we will build you a kit, supplying any oversizes you will need. Also, we will customize a kit in any form you wish, such as adding in a dual timing gear conversion kit or dual valve spring set-up. MEK001 1965 - 71 (pre 18V) $799.95 MEK002 1972 - 80 (18V) $759.95

Or for less money than pretty much changing the plugs on the MGB GT, just buy a Miata!

Another vote for the Miata 1.6 with sidedraft carbs.

+1 for Miata engine...and good luck with your spark-shooting steampunk whirlygigs

NickD wrote: What about a Buick 3800/T5 combo out of a 4th-gen Camaro/Firebird? That seems like it ought be peppy enough for an MGB GT while being fairly compact and cheap. And that engine is pretty tough and has decent aftermarket support for down the road.

While not as bad as the 2.8, 3.1, 3.4, I think the 3800 is a 90 deg v6, and 90 degrees gets real tight in there real quick. You are right, it should scoot though.

In reply to NOHOME:

Its funny, I bought one of those kits (along with cams, big pistons, dual timing chains, the works) from brittek about 11 years ago....

I was posting on MGexp a bit a few years ago, but have kinda stopped because the banter got repetitive (and if you think there are strong personalities here...). I still creep for troubleshooting or used parts though for sure.

The Zetec is from a 2000 Focus and has the cast aluminum upper pan and a stamped steel sump, and yes it's 'front' sumped.

I thought there was a factory Ford rear sump solution but it's evading me at the moment. EDIT: I think it's the Ford Contour/Mystique Zetec's oil pan is a rear sump.

I had some wild ideas of making my own dry sump system that would remove the stamped steel portion and use a plate to make the cast aluminum part as the only sump. It was mostly just wild ideas and don't really know about the feasibility.

Looks like the escape with the zetec might have a sorta-rear sump setup.

Am I the only one that thinks gsxr is the way to go? Screaming with a sequential gearbox awesomeness. But I do understand its more complicated. But you have the parts....

Tim Baxter wrote: Why not the buick/rover v8?

Won't be cheap.

Robbie wrote: In reply to NOHOME: Its funny, I bought one of those kits (along with cams, big pistons, dual timing chains, the works) from brittek about 11 years ago.... I was posting on MGexp a bit a few years ago, but have kinda stopped because the banter got repetitive (and if you think there are strong personalities here...). I still creep for troubleshooting or used parts though for sure.

I hear you on getting tired of the MG experience, though I might have been one of the personalities that scared you away

If you do a search on the MGB swap forum for Zetec, there is some good reading.

Our MGB Zetec swap went pretty well, but mating the Zetec to the Ford 2.3 bellhousing took a lot of work. We had to adapt the bell with some brazed on tabs drill some holes, trim a block plate, figure out a release mechanism.... Since then, we've found a much easier way to bolt on a RWD bell for a wide range of transmission choices. A little background: In the late 80's OMC used the Ford 2.3 OHC as an inboard motor. In order to mate that engine to the OMC outdrive, they cast an adapter. On the 2.3 OHC engine there are two different bolt patterns - the usual 2.3 pattern and the older "pinto" pattern. The main difference is the location of the two upper bolts. OMC used the "pinto" pattern which happens to be the same as the Zetec. That "pinto" pattern is also found on the 2.0 OHC, 1600, 1.9CVH, and the 2.3/2/5 HSC engines. The OMC outdrive is based on a Chevy V8 bellhousing pattern. So, the OMC adapter has a Zetec pattern interfaced with the Chevy bell pattern. The starter holes are indexed allow a Mustang/Ranger 2.3 starter with the Ford 2.3 or Escort 1.9 flywheel, either of which will fit the Zetec. So, by bolting the adapter to the engine, you can bolt on an inexpensive corporate Chevy bell. That makes transmission possibilities pretty broad. Muncie 3 or4 spd, T5, NV3500, T56, 700R4, 200-4R, 4L60, or even a 2 spd Powerglide. And because the pilot shaft on a typical GM transmission is the same as the Zetec (.590"winking smiley, no special pilot bushing is needed. Only a few easy things are needed to use this plate: 1. make a stepped index bushing for the engine side (.600" to .500"winking smiley, 2. drill for a .625" transmission index bushing on the transmission side, 3. modify the Zetec pan to clear the low mounted starter like we did for the MGB, (a 15 minute job on the bandsaw), 4. Trim the adapter to fit around the rear main seal on the Zetec.

I think the Miata is about as easy button as there is. I would use the 1800 just to keep it a "1800". My only dislike about the Miata transmission is, aren't most of the non-OD?

Another choice that I believes easy is the Volvo B-18. It will be a lot more durable that the MOWOG engine.

java230 wrote: Am I the only one that thinks gsxr is the way to go? Screaming with a sequential gearbox awesomeness. But I do understand its more complicated. But you have the parts....

Not the only one. I think it is the way to go about every third day.

spitfirebill wrote: I think the Miata is about as easy button as there is. I would use the 1800 just to keep it a "1800". My only dislike about the Miata transmission is, aren't most of the non-OD? Another choice that I believes easy is the Volvo B-18. It will be a lot more durable that the MOWOG engine.

https://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/gearing.php

Looks like they have a .8 5th gear.

The final drive is similar between MGB and miata as well.

The 4 speed I have is a pretty close to being a bolt on rear wheel drive transmission. The two locating dowels need to be stepped or the smaller of the two holes redrilled to match the larger holes. The pilot bearing holder in the crank needs to be finished honed to accept the bearing (the recess is there but it's still a rough casting hole). Cut one of the 'wings' off of the cast aluminum upper oil pan bit and use a 2.0 Pinto's starter original to the gear box. I believe I proved to myself that the Zetec and the Pinto used the same starter gear so you could use a Zetec flywheel with the crank sensor that's mounted in the block. The plastic bit that holds the sensor is different for an auto or manual transmission Zetec, so that would need to be replace on mine (as mine came from an auto equipped Focus)

Lots of info on putting a pair of DCOE's on a zetec and use Megajolt for spark. Or just go for a Megasquirt setup as per: https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/install/ford/megasquirt-your-ford-zetec-engine/

And I'll add again that I think the Contour/Mystique's oil pan is a rear mount too.