Miata, Hachi Roku, 240Z/260Z or what?

Now that I've got some winter wheels/tow vehicle (to my shame, I bought a pickup truck), the thoughts are turning back to the 'what trackable car' issue that's next on the vehicular agenda.

Basically, I'd like to get something that I can modify slightly for decent track use while still retain streetability. Intended use would be mainly HPDE, maybe a little Auto-X and very maybe, Time Attack in a few years. Oh, and the Silver State Classic. So that'll probably mean something along the lines of improved suspension and brakes, plus a pair of decent seats and a rollbar. To boot, I don't really want to spend more than 5k on the car itself as I'd consider that OK enough to walk away from if things go horribly wrong; it would be painful but not ruinous.

So, my current short list looks something like this:

• Miata, aka the safe option. I've already owned 3 Mk1s, know what to look for and pretty much know what I want on one of them. I've only had 1.6s so far, but this time I'd probably look for a 1.8 with LSD as a base. Add some bracing from FM, 15" wheels, decent coil overs and a Harddog rollbar, plus a pair of seats and we're talking cheap track fun. And if I get bored, i know from experience that putting the right sort of turbo or supercharger on will get me into early Elise territory on the track, at least when driving with equally unskilled "opponents".
• AE86, hopefully an undrifted one. Another momentum car, I like the looks of it but admittedly haven't driven one before and only been in one about 20 years ago. More practical than the Miata if I get a hatch, but I guess the rollbar will prevent the use of a rear seat. Would probably have to travel to SoCal for one, but you can find them up here, too.
• Datsun Z, always loved the looks of it, never driven one. They're not that hard to find out here, just about inside the budget if I look for a 260Z. Not sure about the continued availability of aftermarket go-faster bits but the article in CM a little while back suggests that there is good amount of knowledge out there regarding making them go a little faster.

I'm not a massive fan of the E30, that's why that one isn't on the list. I'd probably consider one, but I'd probably go either for a 2002 or an E36 coupe instead.

FWD is out, I've tried it often enough in the past and even after owning the supposedly best FWD car ever (Integra Type-R), I still don't like them, especially not on the track. So that rules out CRXs, Neons or Sentras.

What have I overlooked or should consider? At my skill level I'd prefer a light, nimble car over something with more power as the goal is to learn/improve my track craft, not mask the lack of skill with power.

RX7 TII RX7 1st gen

Should have mentioned that I've owned RX7s in the past, one of each generation. I don't have the skill to drive an FD at even 5/10s and am not sure I want an FC again. FB, well, maybe. I liked the one I drove recently but it didn't magically open my wallet.

If you didn't like the first gen 12A RX-7 you probably wont like the Corolla either. They are pretty similar except the Corolla has a little better steering feel and is a lot slower unless you get the "hot" version.

By the way the 12A or any NA 13B will really wake up with a carb and exhaust upgrade. Re-Speed makes a rack and pinion conversion to fix the steering issue as well. I have one in my garage waiting for install.

Miatas are known to you.

240/260 look awesome but I do not really enjoy the driving experience. They are tourquey which is nice but the seating position, shifter and steering feel leave me cold.

$5k would get you a VERY nice first gen RX-7, corolla or NA miata. 240/260 might be a little rougher.

Clarification - I do like FBs, I'm just a little unsure about using it for the purpose I mentioned above. I didn't know about the rack and pinion conversion, that actually might make a massive difference.

I think I could live with a GSL-SE with an upgraded exhaust...

BTW, I realised I just fell into the usual trap when I comes to AE86s - I wasn't even considering an SR5 but basically only considering the GTS, ie the 'hot' version.

If you're still interested in an AE86, don't discount an SR-5 if the body is nice. Swapping in a 4AGE is easier and sometimes cheaper than rust repair. The coupes were slightly lighter and stiffer than the hatchbacks.

Have you considered the S13-chassis 240SX? Stock versions aren't that fast but the engines are torquey (esp. the DOHC KA24DE found in the 91-93 models) and the aftermarket is huge. Sadly, you may have to deal with the drift tax in CA.

Porsche 944. And then when you are ready for W2W racing spec 944.

Aztecs rock....

Should've mentioned that 944s are out - the only one I really enjoyed driving was an S2 and they tend to be way outside my budget.

Oh, and Aztecs get caught by the "no FWD" rule .

I often wish I left my GSL-SE stock aside from an exhaust and minor suspension wheel upgrades. Probably the rack and pinion swap also.

You could get either a great already modified or low mileage stock SE for $5k. Or get a decent stock one for $2-$3k and modify how you like it.

Miata all the way. Easiest to find, easiest to upgrade, easiest to sell if you get bored . . .

RexSeven wrote: If you're still interested in an AE86, don't discount an SR-5 if the body is nice. Swapping in a 4AGE is easier and sometimes cheaper than rust repair. The coupes were slightly lighter and stiffer than the hatchbacks. Have you considered the S13-chassis 240SX? Stock versions aren't that fast but the engines are torquey (esp. the DOHC KA24DE found in the 91-93 models) and the aftermarket is huge. Sadly, you may have to deal with the drift tax in CA.

Drift tax affects everywhere, but only if it is a stick.
the S13 is an awesome chassis to play with if you can find a clean example. but the seats are major suckage stock.

You are going to live with it.... YOU should really decide based on YOUR criteria, and how important each is to you......

the AE86 would fit, and so would the previous incarnation of the Corolla (E7 chassis - see my build) the parts are out there, more importantly the knowledge is out there! A hatchback would allow you to pack the tires inside the car when you go to the track... along with some tools, a compact jack, a pair of stands, a change of clothes, a small cooler.... you get the idea

The Datsun is a fair bit older... parts are tougher to come by(not tough per say, but tougher then either the AE86, or the Miata.

The Miata - personally I have three areas I don't like... 1) the engine, a 4AGE can be built to produce far more power then the 1.6, and the 1.8 isn't all that powerful either, 2) there are just 2 seats, and few if any aftermarket seat options available 3) has little utilitarian uses (see all you can get in an AE86)

For $5k you might be able to swing a hard top miata and turbo it in the future but I think I'd rather go for a GSL-SE FB or a Turbo2 FC. I wish I never sold my TII.

The miata might make more sense if you're mainly considering driving it on the track since it starts as the most traditional momentum car but when you decide to go turbo it'll be a screamer. FB might be the cheapest and you get the hatch by default.

Just keep looking and you'll find something that throws logic out the window.

I read your car list at the beginning and immediately though "FB RX-7". Supposedly, so did everybody else. The AE86 and Datsun both say you want something older and not often seen, the Miata says you want it cheap and fast. I think the GSL-SE achieves all of these. $5K will get a musuem-ready one. Buy a nice driver for $2K, swap in the R&P, suspension goodies, seats, rollbar, and a header + exhaust and you are done. As a bonus, if you ever wad it up shells are dirt cheap and all your SE stuff will swap right over, even to a 79-80 SA.

I'll go ahead and leave these here...

Javelin wrote: .$5K will get a musuem-ready one.

Only with you up in cheap car land. The rest of us get to pay double for really nice ones.

If you're lucky $5k will get you a pretty decent GSL-SE around here, but not a museum one.

I like the grey FB but I'm thinking that the Watanabes on that one probably cost more than my car buying budget .

BoxheadTim wrote: Oh, and Aztecs get caught by the "no FWD" rule .

AWD version?

I sold my dream Miata to put the money into my turbo 280Z project. I think it's way cooler and the vintage vibe is more of what I'm looking for at this point in my life. Plenty of options for making the L series engine more powerful or swap in an SR, RB or anything else you can think of. Just don't buy a rust bucket.

In response to Javelin:

I know you already said no to a 944 but a well-sorted 944 turbo could probably be had for your target budget. 2 examples I found on a quick search on pelican:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/570362-porsche-944-951-turbo-daily-track-ready.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/563338-944-turbo-sale-trade.html

Here's one that's a year old but just shows the deals are out there - track ready 944S2 for $5k:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/514834-1991-porsche-944s2-street-track-car.html

Then again there's people with crazy ideas what their cars are worth, like the guy local to me asking $11k for his (admittedly good looking) '88 951.

Not my fault most^ cars up here are cheaper!

^ Note: Subaru not included!!!

Come to Cali for FB RX7s, they dont really do too well with passing emissions here so they have mostly all been scrapped, but there are still nice ones for cheap.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

First Gen Celica?

A lot of the suspension of the AE86 is swappable with a bit of work, thus giving you a relatively affordable upgrade path.

They are a bit heavier than the Corolla, but they look a hell of a lot better in my opinion.

BoxheadTim wrote: I'm not a massive fan of the E30, that's why that one isn't on the list. I'd probably consider one, but I'd probably go either for a 2002 or an E36 coupe instead. What have I overlooked or should consider? At my skill level I'd prefer a light, nimble car over something with more power as the goal is to learn/improve my track craft, not mask the lack of skill with power.

I run TT's in a (turbo) Miata. Fastest guy in my class (by quite a bit) is a built E36 328 coupe. Behind him, there's a gaggle of STI's/EVO's and a very well driven 240Z, a few E36 M3's, a Boxster, and my Yata mixed in there somewhere. I have a pretty good clue on the relative capabilities of these cars and am always impressed with the track manners of the E36 BMW in all it's variants. Semi stripped for the track they're under 2800 Lbs. Most I see have over 100K miles on them, with many track days, and the motors haven't seen anything more than maintenance and maybe a head gasket at 125-150K. I'd never use "good bang for the buck" to describe any German car, but the E36 comes as close as you'll get.

FWIW - The Miata's a blast, but without a full cage you're risking your neck much more than a tin top.