Miata vs Boxster vs 911

Not new here but my user profile seems to disappear. This by far my favorite car forum. It is not brand specific, the members offer good input in a civil manor (even in Off-topics),  and y'all are real people doing real stuff (i.e. the Show us Something you Made thread which is one of my favorites).

For another data point and to add to the forum...To shorten the story, when I do commute to work it is 80 miles round trip. I have been driving a mid 2000's V70. It was my wife's, but I bought an SUV after my modded E36 was run into the ground and she is now driving "my" new car on a full-time basis. The V70 is competent, very comfortable, and boring. I have been wanting something more exciting. However , to many cars I just say "meh". The exception are the P-cars. 911 = drool.

At the start of today...

- I liked the fact that a 2009-2011 911 will hold it value, but I was concerned about being able to drive it versus treating it like an investment.

- The Boxster is a "poor man's Porsche" 

- Boxster/Cayman depreciation had me concerned that will lose money if I decide to sell

- I believed the Miata ws 85% of the fun that you could have in a Boxster, so buying a Boxster made no sense

- I thought the hardtop 911 and the Cayman were the prettiest of the P-cars

I did some test driving.

#1 2019 Miata RF Automatic

I needed to start here because it is the "ANSWER". I was fun, revvy, and very very cozy... and the interior a little plasticy.  I felt uncomfortable in it and my son's head was touching the headline (he is under 6').  I do not think it was a car I could live with.

#2 2009 911 S Coupe 997.2 PDK

It was parked inside the dealership so I didn't ask them to drag it out. Gorgeous. Useless back seat. Very spacious for driver and passenger. High quality interior. 

#3 2014 Boxster base 981 manual

Premium interior. Enough space inside. Oh that glorious Porsche wail. After 4500 rpms the party started. A low revs it was a docile cruiser. Fun, fun, fun. I  believed I could take any corner at warp speed. PASM made everything so smooth.

#4 2006 911 S 997.1 Cab manual

Like #2 and the driving experience of a faster "differently handling" #3. Faster than #2 for sure. Lighter front end than #2.  The light front end and 911 stigma didn't give me full confidence in the corners during the test drive. It was me, not the car. I cannot say that this car was more fun at reasonable (and yet still illegal) speeds than the Boxster.

My thoughts now...

- This is still an issue. -> I liked the fact that a 2009-2011 911 will hold it value, but I was concerned about being able to drive it versus treating it like an investment.

- If you think this, the joke is on you. It is a really fun car. -> The Boxster is a "poor man's Porsche" 

- This is still an issue, but should it be? Where does the smiles/mile get counted?  -> Boxster/Cayman depreciation had me concerned that will lose money if I decide to sell

- I would pay the extra $ for the Boxster. It is a nicer place to sit in and spend your time. Maybe not track time, but commute, weekend, date night time for sure.  It holds more than a duffel bags worth of luggage. -> I believed the Miata ws 85% of the fun that you could have in a Boxster, so buying a Boxster made not sense

- I still do, but the verts bring the fun zone closer to legal speeds -> I though the hardtop 911 and the Cayman were the prettiest of the P-cars

My first world problem...911 cab or Boxster...

Do I buy the cheaper fun car and drive it with reckless abandon until it is worthless not caring about depreciation?

Do I buy the 911 Cab and fret over every rock chip?

My though as of right now (but I change my mind often)...

2014-2015 Boxster S manual and drive it with reckless abandon until it is recycled.

Well, ask yourself what is the real purpose for the car? Is there any track work in it's future or is it just a fun car to take out on the weekend. Sounds like it's more towards the second one. If it's not then it's really simple, Boxster because the roll over protection on a 997 cab is not there for track work without major work. 

Otherwise it's more of a tastes. The 997 will maintain the value a little more and is a lot more room but Cabs have always been the worse for resale in the 911 line. In most cases, it ends up a lot cheaper to buy a cab vs a tin top. 

I enjoy driving the Boxster more personally and I think it's the best Porsche for street use depreciation be damned. I would look at 987.2 version and the cheap 25Kish buy in and drive the wheels off it. 

I love me a miata (owned 4 now) but Porsche is a different league. As a wildcard, I'd look at a s2000 with a Kraftwerks supercharger on it before a Miata. 

If you’re cross shopping all of those, you’re doing yourself a disservice not looking at at least the Z4M and possibly the Z4 3.0s...

Once you drive that 997 911 S PDK coupe I think you’ll make your decision.  They’re incredible cars and that would be my pick.

I’ve been around and in all of these cars.  I’ve owned several Miata’s and still have one.  I own a 996 C2 and a 986 S.   

If I had to have only one car for fun, I’d lean towards an 06 997.1 Carrera S 6 spd a 987.1 S for vert or the best deal in cars right now a 987.1 Cayman S.  

On any Porsche check maintenance and option codes.  Get a car optioned like you want and a color you like.  Don’t settle just because.

Some 05 997 987s have been known to have the old small single row IMS, which is why I prefer the 06-08 cars.  Believe it or not the 09 plus cars have more power, but different issues I’d prefer to avoid.

You are asking a question we can not answer for you. 

You sound like you are hung up on the investment part of the 911. How about you consider it as an investment in your fun and drive it like you stole it. You will be getting your moneys worth from the fun of a 911. 

I see a lot of car owners that have nice cars but they don’t look like they are having fun owning them. 

I never look at a car as an investment. They are an appliance with a finite life span that I always intend to get the full value of the purchase price by using them up completely.   

The things with 911s and investements is - well, if it's not aircooled or a special model like a GT2 or GT3, and you drive it, it'll go down in value. Probably not as much as say a Civic or a Boxster, but it will certainly dimish in value. If you drive it a lot it'll be not that easy to sell at the end of the day as most people look for low mileage 911s if they're in the market for one, and there are a lot of low mileage ones out there because people tend to treat them as special cars. If you're using the 911 for your commute you'll be doing the car a favour but you definitely won't do the resale value a favour. Also, keep in mind they like their consumables - my worst was getting 5k out of a set of rear snow tires on my 996, and it wasn't because I was driving it like a lunatic.

Also, if it goes anywhere near the track I wouldn't get a convertible, get a coupe.

I personally prefer 911s over Boxsters, but I might be a little weird. Usually a matter of personal preference. I've also owned a 996 cabriolet and currently own a Carrera 3.2 cabriolet, but if I ever get another 911 I'll get a coupe.

In reply to Osterkraut :

Will do.

Re. The investment aspect...

That is why I am thinking Boxster. It is the least cost, including running cost for a car that I though was just as fun as a 911 on public roads. I can drive the snot out of it until it is virtually worthless. The 911 cost enough more that I would be hesitant to do the same. I want to buy new enough to avoid an IMS engine. 

The 911 coupe and the Caymans (981 version) are absolutely beautiful to me. Way more so than their convertible kin.  However, I am not likely to track the car and I enjoyed the top drown driving. It made the "fun" start at lower speeds. As for resale value, see the above. I really want to enjoy the car out on the road and not faun over it in the garage. 

dean1484 said:

 

I never look at a car as an investment. They are an appliance with a finite life span that I always intend to get the full value of the purchase price by using them up completely.   

Amen.

Water cooled P cars are driver’s cars, stocks and bonds are investments.

The 986 / 996 are the best pure lower tech driver’s cars of the bunch.  You can get really close with a 987 or 997 with better headlights and the large robust IMSB.  I’d totally rock an 06-08 Carrera S, Boxster S or Cayman S with a 6 spd.  The Cayman S will prove to be the long term bargain in running costs, fun, resale and utility.  You can find nice ones for $20-$23k all day long.

996TT Convertible. 

End of the thread. Zero depreciation, some maintenance, and looks that can KILL. 

Interior is not the nicest place to sit but I would rather have a TT Pcar over a 997.1 Cab in the same price range.

Olemiss540 said:

996TT Convertible. 

End of the thread. Zero depreciation, some maintenance, and looks that can KILL. 

Interior is not the nicest place to sit but I would rather have a TT Pcar over a 997.1 Cab in the same price range.

That’s a good point.  I’d rather go TT as well.

Cotton said:

Once you drive that 997 911 S PDK coupe I think you’ll make your decision.  They’re incredible cars and that would be my pick.

Since I have one, 2010, I have to agree.

But for track use or autocross I suggest the Miata. Every day all day. The consumables on the Porsche will eat you alive and yes you are killing the value by using it in an aggressive manner. There is no real investment potential on a 997 PDK car as well.

A Manual yes but the PDK is just to common and the early PDK is just that little bit to slow.

Olemiss540 said:

996TT Convertible. 

End of the thread. Zero depreciation, some maintenance, and looks that can KILL. 

Interior is not the nicest place to sit but I would rather have a TT Pcar over a 997.1 Cab in the same price range.

A friend of a friend is a Porsche tech. I asked him 996TT or 997.2? His answer was 996TT for track or toy and a 997.2 for a daily, as there wasn't anything on the TT that could be fixed for under $1000. His words, just passing them along. Plus a nice interior is important to me. It's the part of the car I will see the most.

As an owner of a 996tt, I disagree with him.  Well, let me qualify that, if you take it to a shop, yes.  If you do the work yourself, no, they're actually reasonable to maintain/own.

The back seats easily fit kids, my 6 year old rides back there easily with tons of space.

Hilarious. IMS, oil starvation, engine grenadation issues are all too common EXCEPT on the 996tt and gt3 based engines. What in the world could be more costly to maintain than full engine replacement on a boxster? 

What the mechanic should have said is there is no PORSCHE problem that costs less than 1k to fix period (in a shop).

It was a comparison of the 996TT to DFI engined cars for street driven daily use. Including the fact that you'd be buying a car than is about 5 years older. But point taken of the DYI cost versus shop. I don't let the shops do much of anything unless I am sure that I can't or I don't want to.

Looking at the 996TT's again A) I could deal with the interior B) I don't have the kind of $ where I would not be treating that car like an investment.

docwyte: That 6 year old will get bigger, faster than you can believe. As a joke I asked my son to get in the back of the 997.2. I laughed hard for quite a while. I can't image a 996 would be any different. If it were a cabrio with the top down he might have fared better.

He still uses a booster seat, so I've got quite some time that he'll fit in the back of the 911.  Hell, my buddy who's 5'9" fit back there.  Not comfortably, but for a short ride he fit fine.  Considering that the other two cars in your subject title don't even *have* back seats I find it a little humorous that you think the back seats in the 911 are too small.

To illustrate the DIY vs shop costs, the dealer wanted to charge me $1500 in labor to change the spark plugs on the 996tt, I did it myself in 3 hours, having never done it before.  I'm sure the tech could've done it in half that time, so the dealer is making over $700/hour off the tech and ultimately me.  No thanks, I'll do it myself.

When the clutch or coolant pipes start leaking (yes, the coolant pipes are an issue on the Metzger motors) I'll probably drop the powertrain myself and then take it to a shop to have them weld up the coolant pipes and do the clutch.  Then I'll do all the other "while I'm in there" jobs before I stuff the powertrain back in.

I guess my experience is relatively limited in this crowd since ive only owned one miata and one 911. I'd say if you're concerned about losing money avoid the 911. It has the most to lose and whether or not it loses money on its own merit it's still subject to the general risk of the market taking a dump like it did 10 years ago and may again soon (depending on who you ask yadda yadda).  I agree about the Porsches being in a whole other league from the Miata in terms of the experience of being in one and since you won't be tracking it or seem unlikely to, the ways that a Miata can make a strong case against a Porsche are reduced there too. So in my opinion you should be deciding between a Boxster and a Cayman. I don't love the Cayman roofline and I definitely like having a convertible around (i've frequently had more than one for the last 10 years, currently have 3). But, convertible tops do represent some serious upkeep/depreciation of their own depending on how long you keep the car and WHERE you keep the car. 

Had a 2009 997.2 PDK for a about a year.  I traded it in for pretty much what I paid for it (with taxes it might have been a little better, sales tax is 10% in WA).  The PDK was great and shifted better than I ever could, but ultimately I wanted something in a manual that sounded different (not necessarily better).  The P-Car was beautiful and easy to work on.  Everything is easy to get to with the motor in the back.  I changed the spark plugs when I replacedthe mufflers (put in Tubi's hoping to get a better sound) and it wasn't bad at all.  I put on catless headers too and that was really easy.  Unfortunately the direct engine on those cars just doesn't sound that great, especially compared to the next generation.  I spent of money a lot chasing a sound that the car just couldn't make and probably should have found a way to make a 991 with the sports exhaust happen.

The car I traded it in for sounds better and is faster, but part of me wishes that I held on to the Porsche for a little while longer.  It's a bit of a moot point since I work in the toxic waste part of town and can't drive either car to work . 

Having now spent a lot more money than I'd like to on the latest car (GT350), I really wish I had picked up the $24k Cayman S that I test drove.  Sure it could have had the dreaded IMS issue, but that car felt perfect.  I spent too much time on Rennlist when trying to make the decision and quotes like "nobody ever loses sleep over getting the 911 vs the Cayman" pushed me toward the 911. 

When I was shopping P-cars the Boxsters typically ran cheaper than the Caymans if that helps.  Don't really think you could go wrong with either, but it might depend on what part of the country you are in which suits you better.

Caymans didn’t come out until 06, therefore they should have the larger more robust IMS bearing....  as in it is not an issue.  The Cayman S is the best choice here.

The IMS on the Caymans are still an issue until 2009.  The later IMS bearings aren't servicable, so I'd rather have an earlier Boxster compared to the later Cayman with the non servicable bearing.

No it's not an issue.  In '09 they changed the design to the old design similar to the Mezger, but the '06-'08 large IMS bearings are proving to be really durable.  I'm not going to go into failure rates, but I'd rather have an 06-08 than an 09+ Porsche flat 6.  And the turbo isn't as bullet proof as it is being discussed here.  I've been to the only rebuild school for these engines though. so what do I know. 

As a former 996 and 986 owner: I found the Boxster to be more fun. I liked the idea of owning a 911 more but I definitely had more fun with the Boxster. The 50% entry price helped a lot but that car also handled better and sounded better.  My IMS car was rock solid and I drove it cross country twice.

Caymans demand a premium over their contemporary Boxster siblings so if you're looking for a vert, go Boxster. If you want a coupe, then the Cayman vs 911 decision is harder. 

If you are buying it as an investment, you need to rethink it completely.

Get the Boxster S that is already depreciated significantly, put in a new clutch and do the IMS bearing at the same time, get to driving.