Middle class exotic ownership?

mfennell wrote: A lot of it is about priorities. My 2nd car when I had the Esprit was a Subaru Justy (3 cylinders, no AC), followed by a 200k mile E28. By the time I got the GT3, I had upgraded to a 180k mile E34 Touring which now has nearly 240k miles on it (anyone have OEM rear springs? my self-leveling died...). I supplemented that with a 120k mile Jaguar XJR. Point being - I drove a lot of cheap stuff and did it cheaply so I could afford One Really Nice Thing. Many friends who oogle my cars are not willing to do anything like that.

This all day long.

In my neck of the woods it's mom's in their $40K+ crossovers, and dad's in their crew cab $40K+ 3/4 tons. Heck you can option a new Explorer up to $50K+, and the AVERAGE new car price is ~$30K in 2012.

There's often $80-$100K worth of vehicles between two parents in "middle class" keeping up with the Joneses homes.

My wife's friends wonder how the hell my wife can afford to stay home, or how we survive on a single income. Look where the money's going... we were willing to live in a cheaper house to start, I drive a 200K+ paid for incredibly efficient TDI as my DD, and my wife's wagon with 100K on it does just fine (nice car fwiw.. '08 Volvo V50 T5). No cable, no satellite, no lawn service, no day care, etc. It's choices.

So short answer, yes you absolutely CAN have an exotic if that was your priority. Most just CHOOSE to spend money on everything else.

I've often pondered that it might even be a more financially sound option. Going by the math that the average person drops $30K on a new vehicle, that depreciates like crazy, and ends up with a ~$8K car by the time they start that cycle over... they probably would be better off with a $40K exotic in the garage... and a $5K beater to drive everyday. At the end of that 8 year cycle (or whatever...), the car in the garage is likely still worth $40K... and their now $1500 beater only needs replaced with another $5K DD. (Rather than another $30K Camcord to depreciate)

Klayfish wrote: I keep telling her we need to cash out up here in PA and go get a mansion down there.

I know a couple who sort of did that - DINKs with good incomes working in NYC, banking one salary and living off the other. In their late 30's, they sold their house in Queens for a tidy sum (sold at the hieght of the bubble), packed up and moved to the suburbs of Philly to have kids. The sale price of the NYC house allowed them to pay cash for the PA house in a pricey area with room to spare.

Seems like "middle class" is a lot easier to define than "exotic". Since we can't even agree on what an exotic is...

The ultimate answer is: what are your priorities? If you are middle class, you have money to splurge on things you care about, but will have to be judicious in how you spend it. If what you really want is a car you find "exotic", then I'm fairly certain you can find a way to fit it into your budget if you sacrifice other things. You probably would have to give up vacations, the occasional new DD, and if you have kids it will probably preempt all of this. But if the thing that really rings your chimes is an exotic car... go for it.

Actually, that is how I define lower/middle/upper class: Lower class you have to budget carefully and make sacrifices to meet the basic modern necessities (food, clothes, housing, transportation, and savings), but are pretty much boned on any luxuries; middle class you don't really have to worry about paying for the basics anymore, but have to make choices and budget carefully on your luxuries; upper class, you are so well set that budgeting for your luxuries isn't an issue if you don't go crazy.

I think what this comes to is that we, as a group have different priorities than most middle class to upper middle class people. As was pointed out, the "norm" is to constantly have 60-80 thousand dollars worth of cars on payments. That same money will buy you something exotic, and two boring but decent drivers.

My family takes really nice trips. We want to make memories with our kids while there with us, and we love to travel. we will go on 2-3 major trips a year, and I have friends that haven't been on a real vacation since Clinton was in office. They drive shiny new trucks, I drive a 2000 buick.

Beer Baron wrote: Seems like "middle class" is a lot easier to define than "exotic". Since we can't even agree on what an exotic is...

I know exotic. It's the strippers with accents.

I'm sure someone could do it on our income, but I couldn't with a clear conscience right now. Between my responsibilities as a husband and a father, I couldn't pull it off without sacrificing something important to the family as a whole.

The purchase cost of an exotic is one hurdle, but the maintenance is what scares me. Even a semi-exotic like a 911 worries me. My first car magazine was a R&T Porsche issue when I was 7, my first ride in a fun car was in a 911, and I've been following all of the 911 threads on here with great interest. I really like the idea of a 911, except for the fact that a new engine is like $10k. Not sure I can stomach that at this point, or in the near future.

As many have said, it's all about priorities. I'm sure you could pull it off if you were dedicated enough and willing (and able) to sacrifice in other areas of your life.

I learned 3 things from this thread.

1. I earned more than I thought compared to the rest of the world.
2. I pay more on my student loans because I'm trying to pay them off then the cost for me to buy a slightly used GT3 (damn I should have never looked)
3. I have a really cheap house for the size and location. (1700 SQ FT on the edge of austin and I paid 121K and I'm in a nice Hood)

Oh and most of my toys are great cars bought at the bottom of the depreciating curve and I usually sell them for the same or more than I paid.

I learned if I sold the wife and kids (cheap even) I could be a "middle class" "exotic owner" fairly easily.

I've owned a Ferrari; it was a total Waste of money. I bought it cash and sold it cash. I enjoyed my 3KGT VR4 more. If I was going to drop $25k on a used car it would be a wicked 944/968(+mod money) because I've loved driving the ones I've owned and want another VERY nice one. Most of the "exotic" cars just don't pull me in.

Now if we are talking about dropping $250k; different story.

Paul_VR6 wrote: I learned if I sold the wife and kids (cheap even) I could be a "middle class" "exotic owner" fairly easily.

No need to sell off the dishwasher and lawnmower, got a spare kidney? I would define an exotic as anything 150 mph+ showroom stock when new. Middle class means you don't get food stamps but your son qualifies.

TRoglodyte wrote: I would define an exotic as anything 150 mph+ showroom stock when new.

So... a new Camry?

TRoglodyte wrote:

Paul_VR6 wrote: I learned if I sold the wife and kids (cheap even) I could be a "middle class" "exotic owner" fairly easily.

No need to sell off the dishwasher and lawnmower, got a spare kidney? I would define an exotic as anything 150 mph+ showroom stock when new. Middle class means you don't get food stamps but your son qualifies.

You do realize, that's pretty easy, right? My '88 NA 300Z would do nearly 140. That's a pretty low requirement.

It's more about the cachet AND the performance.

Beer Baron wrote:

TRoglodyte wrote: I would define an exotic as anything 150 mph+ showroom stock when new.

So... a new Camry?

Seriously....this.

200+ mph or 0-60 under 3 second's and a MSRP south of 150K is an exotic at least to me.

To me middle class is 48,500.00 a year for a family of 4. IE the average in the county.

I am in the top lets just say 3% overall and 0.1% by age for income with no kids and 0 debt and even I don't like the idea of owning an used exotic on my salary. Though I am sorely tempted by the falling prices of 599's.

icaneat50eggs wrote: My family takes really nice trips. We want to make memories with our kids while there with us, and we love to travel. we will go on 2-3 major trips a year, and I have friends that haven't been on a real vacation since Clinton was in office. They drive shiny new trucks, I drive a 2000 buick.

Winner right here. Kudos to you.

Here you go. An exotic car for the middle-classed DIY'er: https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/gtm-supercar/

Note to self: Play the Powerball

Beer Baron wrote: Here you go. An exotic car for the middle-classed DIY'er: https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/gtm-supercar/

I doubt it, what's the true cost to build one of those to a decent road car standard? I'll bet you could get a nice 80's Testarossa for the true cost of a GTM. And while I love the styling of the other FF products, the GTM has always looked like something I drew in middle school that then had a large weight dropped in the middle.

Edit Just went checking. There's a Testarossa on ebay right now with a BIN price of $44k, but here's the kicker in favor of the GTM. It has receipts for OVER $46k in maintenance in the 'last few years'!!!!

Wife

9 mo in daycare

mortgage

car payments for wife's ride

paying off debt

Nope - no exotic for this guy anytime soon. And honestly I'd rather have a LT4 C4 or ZO6 C5 anyways.

I've had either a Ferrari or Lamborghini in the fleet since I was 25(back in the 80s). Other than one of the L-cars, they have been very reliable and I've sold eveyone of them for more than the purchase price. Priorities, indeed. I live in a nice area, but don't see the need to remodel my kitchen and bathrooms every few years as many of my neighbors do. When I purchase anything(cars, furniture, art, watches,etc) I make sure that they are quality or vintage pieces-most of these items as well can be sold for more than the buy in.

Storz wrote: Wife 9 mo in daycare mortgage car payments for wife's ride paying off debt Nope - no exotic for this guy anytime soon. And honestly I'd rather have a LT4 C4 or ZO6 C5 anyways.

I would love an LT4 C4, beutiful cars, not an exotic, but beutiful.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Storz wrote: Wife 9 mo in daycare mortgage car payments for wife's ride paying off debt Nope - no exotic for this guy anytime soon. And honestly I'd rather have a LT4 C4 or ZO6 C5 anyways.

I would love an LT4 C4, beutiful cars, not an exotic, but beutiful.

Back in the '90s my dad worked for GM and owned the white LT4 car photographed for the brochure that year. I got my licence in '96 and that 96 Vette was what I learned to drive a stick shift in :)

I'd love to track it down someday.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: Here you go. An exotic car for the middle-classed DIY'er: https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/gtm-supercar/

I doubt it, what's the true cost to build one of those to a decent road car standard? I'll bet you could get a nice 80's Testarossa for the true cost of a GTM. And while I love the styling of the other FF products, the GTM has always looked like something I drew in middle school that then had a large weight dropped in the middle. Edit Just went checking. There's a Testarossa on ebay right now with a BIN price of $44k, but here's the kicker in favor of the GTM. It has receipts for OVER $46k in maintenance in the 'last few years'!!!!

That's the whole issue about Testarossas - they need an engine out service every so often (can't remember the interval, but it's not that long) and IIRC that's around $12k. No idea how DIY-able those are, IIRC the "entry level" V8s are pretty DIY-able.

BoxheadTim wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: Here you go. An exotic car for the middle-classed DIY'er: https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/gtm-supercar/

I doubt it, what's the true cost to build one of those to a decent road car standard? I'll bet you could get a nice 80's Testarossa for the true cost of a GTM. And while I love the styling of the other FF products, the GTM has always looked like something I drew in middle school that then had a large weight dropped in the middle. Edit Just went checking. There's a Testarossa on ebay right now with a BIN price of $44k, but here's the kicker in favor of the GTM. It has receipts for OVER $46k in maintenance in the 'last few years'!!!!

That's the whole issue about Testarossas - they need an engine out service every so often (can't remember the interval, but it's not that long) and IIRC that's around $12k. No idea how DIY-able those are, IIRC the "entry level" V8s are pretty DIY-able.

I'd say they are only DIY able if you are very dedicated. I followed a thread on FCHAT a few years ago where a guy rebuilt his Testarossa's flat 12 at home. Not for the faint of heart, but anything is possible with time and dedication. Way way way beyond what I would ever want to take on through even if I could.

Storz wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Storz wrote: Wife 9 mo in daycare mortgage car payments for wife's ride paying off debt Nope - no exotic for this guy anytime soon. And honestly I'd rather have a LT4 C4 or ZO6 C5 anyways.

I would love an LT4 C4, beutiful cars, not an exotic, but beutiful.

Back in the '90s my dad worked for GM and owned the white LT4 car photographed for the brochure that year. I got my licence in '96 and that 96 Vette was what I learned to drive a stick shift in :) I'd love to track it down someday.

Cool story. BAck when they were launched I loved the Blue/White/Red of the Grand Sports, but with time the white is a better choice.

Middle class is really hard to define. I am in the 43% according to the little online calculator. I have two kids in private preschool, two at home with stay-at-home-Mom, no TV other than AmazonPrime ($40 per year), no newspaper, $57/month total cell bill, $40/month total internet bill and mortgage + wife student loan debt. Right now it's getting ugly, certainly not in any way able to afford any sort of exotic. Not even really able to afford the types of cars my family would "need".