MiniVan any to avoid?

In reply to bravenrace:

It's a Nissan, what do you expect.

Back to the OP's question, maybe I am biased, but I have zero problems with Caravans. As far as weak transmissions in them, they are a TOUCH small in trying to pull 4k+ pounds around everyday. The planets normally fail from lack of lube. Everything else fails because the owners are filling up with gas, an occasional oil change, and be damned on the rest until it breaks. Plus when things break on Caravans, you can fix it in your driveway/carport/garage with minimal tools.

jrw1621 wrote:

Gearheadotaku wrote: watch out for windstar rust. Ford is having a big issue with the subframes. Google the subject and see what you find.... I'd recommend a GM van, Astro or Safari.

If you are in the rust belt, drive to any Ford Dealership and i the back lot you will see a ton of Windstars awaiting repair for these Ford subframe recalls. My small town dealership typically has 25 units on the back lot. I might avoid a Windstar or at least verify that the recall work has been completed.

I wondered why our local Ford Dealer has about 35 Windstars in their "back 40" lot.

donalson wrote: every person I've known with ford windstars and mopar minivans to not have problems with the automatic trans....

I actually don't know a single windstar owner that hasn't had a screwed up transmission. My parent's windstar lost it's tranny at 60k, followed shortly by the engine. terrible, terrible vans...

wow I should learn to properly communicate my thoughts...

yes every windstar and caravan owner I've ever known has had to replace/rebuild the trans.

Ive driven pretty much every van you can get for $2k at some point or another.

Of all of them, the Caravans of every generation are still my favorite over their competitors. Keeping in mind that the $2k limit cuts things off somewhere in the early 2000s model years. Newer vans of other brands have my affection in the years since.

People like to talk a lot about caravan transmissions being bad. It almost COMPLETELY depends on the owner. I worked in a trans shop and rebuilt both the 3spd and 4spd autos that came in vans over the years and i can tell you that OTHER than a lack of maintenance, the only issues they had were the same kind of random, inexplicable breakage that every other trans can suffer from. Certainly not on the level of a 4l60 sun shell or anything like that.

My parents just traded their last Caravan in on cash for clunkers last year. It had 204k on the original 604 when i decided to rebuilt it 'just in case', i.e. before something broke and made the repair more expensive. Its only problems were hard seals. I dont think i replaced a single hard part in it, just seals and clutches, and it went another 40k before being traded in. Its not like 604 maintenance is HARD, either. Fluid change every once in a great while with the correct fluid, and put a tranny cooler on it. Ta-da!!

Ive had a lot of 604s and have had great luck with ALL of them. The only one i ever actually BROKE was because i putting 130mph of power through the weak 4th gear for long minutes. They DO have a weak 4th gear but most 604 cars dont come with enough power to burn through it anyway.

The 3spds are standard torqueflite fare. Not much to complain about other than sticking governors and 2-3 flare that come from not having an electric brain self-adjusting them (like a 604).

Caravans are EASY and CHEAP to work on. If you cant fix a caravan, sell your tools and give up.

Also, if you want a van with great mpg, they sold caravans with 5spds until 95 iirc. I have one (since turbo'd) that avg'd 27 mpg. A friend and I built another one for him in my carport last year (also turbo but 5spd is my point).

You can fit a twin bed in the back of a short wheelbase one, and they made long wheelbase ones for ridiculous amounts of room. They can also tow things, like cars. They also tend to do reasonably well in off-road racing (they really are tough as nails). And here's me staging up to race a highly modded 2-stroke scooter that i actually carried to the track in the back of my van.

Do you want 2.2, 2.5, 2.6, 3.0, 3.3, or 3.8L engine? Turbo or n/a? 3, 4, or 5 spds? Auto or manual? 2wd or Awd? Short or long? Nearly all their renditions can be had under $2k.

The cheap/fun/fast/efficient/utility quotient is just ridiculous, and they're perfectly comfortable as well.

ok sorry /caravan plug.

In reply to Vigo:

Vigo;

You are a great source of info. Had a turbo mini couple years ago, sold it to another board member. Looking for a little newer style. Thanks for the info on the 5-speeds up till 95 didn't know that. I am leaning caravan just because they are cheap, easy to fix and there is a crap load of them in hte local JY.

BBC

Vigo wrote: Also, if you want a van with great mpg, they sold caravans with 5spds until 95 iirc. I have one (since turbo'd) that avg'd 27 mpg. A friend and I built another one for him in my carport last year (also turbo but 5spd is my point).

1994, according to StarParts. But in reality, they are a dang great bang for the buck, especially for the cheapass, errr, GRM crowd.

Something I was wondering, why no turbodiesel minivans?

It makes perfect sense for what it is, but there isn't a single maker who has done it in America.

Non US 3rd gen Caravans(96-2000?) had diesel/5spd combos available. The tech school I went to had one out back.

You are a great source of info. Had a turbo mini couple years ago, sold it to another board member. Looking for a little newer style. Thanks for the info on the 5-speeds up till 95 didn't know that. I am leaning caravan just because they are cheap, easy to fix and there is a crap load of them in hte local JY.

Thanks. The 91-95 body style is basically the same mechanicals as the turbo body style with major interior upgrades and a more modern look. I personally think the green one i posted looks pretty good. The turbo motors from the earlier cars can go into the later vans (as is the case with that green one) but the wiring harness can be a pretty significant project. If you can live with the 100hp tbi/5spd combo (i did for 2 years and love it, got a max of 33mpg too) then you can just get a factory-stock van and enjoy it. There is suspension stuff you can do if you want it to handle better.

1994, according to StarParts. But in reality, they are a dang great bang for the buck, especially for the cheapass, errr, GRM crowd.

Thanks for the info. I totally agree.

Non US 3rd gen Caravans(96-2000?) had diesel/5spd combos available. The tech school I went to had one out back.

I wish i could get my hands on one.

As a consolation prize, crazy David of Davidsfarm fame built a vw TDI-swapped caravan, first the older body style and then swapped into one of the same body style as the green one i posted. http://www.google.com/search?q=davidsfarm+diesel+caravan&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=davidsfarm+diesel+caravan&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=vid&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=e962fefeca4d61a2&biw=1440&bih=690

"Do you want 2.2, 2.5, 2.6, 3.0, 3.3, or 3.8L engine? Turbo or n/a? 3, 4, or 5 spds? Auto or manual? 2wd or Awd? Short or long? Nearly all their renditions can be had under $2k."

Vigo, I am looking for a caravan/voyager right know. What do you recommend as far as the different engine options? Known strengths or weaknesses? Hop up potential? Gas misers? I'm hoping for a long wheelbase stick. Is the AWD worth pursuing or is it weak, problem prone system? Big mileage hit with AWD? There is a somewhat local turbo 5spd by me, but it is priced at double what I have budgeted. What should you look for in a potential turbo swap candidate? Do you know what the sport package is all about? Thanks

So many questions..

Nah but seriously... What do you recommend as far as the different engine options? 2.2 and 2.6 carb motors from 84-86, no real reason to buy unless the rest of the van somehow justifies it. 2.5 tbi, super reliable and easy to work on, but hopelessly gutless with auto, only acceptable with manual. 2.5 turbo, ~400hp bottom end from the factory, ~200hp top end. It CAN be the easiest of them all to get power from, but with the auto your mileage will be horrendous. 2.5 turbo +5spd FTW imo. 3.0 known to have BAD valve guide issues 87-92 or so. Otherwise very solid engines. 3.3/3.8 are two versions of the same engine and basically have no major weak points. They are rock solid.

Which one you get depends on what body style and wheelbase you want.

For hop-up potential, the turbo 2.5 and the 3.0 are the easiest to get major power increases from. Either motor has been over 500whp from someone in the turbo mopar scene. The 3.0 is a little harder because it isnt turbo from the factory but n/a mods can get you to 160+whp. That doesnt sound like much but with a 5spd you're talking low 16s, high 15s in a caravan, not terrible. 3.0s never came with 5spds but you can mix and match factory parts to make it a complete bolt-in affair.

As for gas mileage, the 5spds take the cake. You could get 2.2 carb, 2.5 tbi, 2.5 turbo with factory 5spds and swap the 3.0 pretty easily. The only 5spd that bolts to the 3.3/3.8 is pricey, rare, and more difficult to install.

Otherwise pretty much all of them should do ~20-22 mpg with auto if driven nicely. I had a 3.0/3spd that got 25 but i dont know why.

The AWD system has never been broken with power, it's super beefy. On the other hand, AWD only CAME with 3.3/3.8, and people generally dont mod them because people are lame and dont see potential in anything that didnt come with a 5spd or in a light car.

The factory awd system has been adapted to a 3.0/5spd but its power limits still have not been tested.

As for mpg, i would think an awd auto 3.3/3.8 van is mostly going to avg under 20 mpg.

They never made a long wheelbase manual van from the factory. All long wheelbase vans other than a handful of factory freaks got v6s, and v6s never CAME with a 5spd. It is possible to get a long wheelbase 3.0 and swap it to 5spd. Here's one with a turbo. http://www.youtube.com/user/splatmaster86#p/a/u/2/2atLBT3xCXs

As for potential swap candidates, depends on what swap you mean. motor or tranny? Turbo 2.5 swaps are easier into 84-90 vans because of wiring, but still possible in 91-95. Swapping to a manual trans is about the same difficulty from 84-95.

I completely forgot to mention the 2.4 that came in 96-up vans. It only came with 3spd auto and is a dog from the factory, but since it's the same basic engine as an srt-4, you can imagine the turbo antics that are possible from that engine. I dont personally know of anyone who has 5spd swapped one of those yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78InPT4iqlw&feature=player_embedded

Sport package on the 2g 91-95 vans is.. bumper covers, sometimes side moldings, fog lights, sometimes monochrome paint, and a rear sway bar. I dont know which engines you could get it with.. Thats all i know for sure on those. On the 96-00 ones there is more than one version but still bumper cover, fog lights, honeycomb grille, monochrome, liftgate spoiler, 16s or 17s, higher stall torque converter, rear sway bar, and sometimes autostick. I THINK you could only get sport package with 3.3/3.8 on those 3g vans. I dont know anything about the interior stuff that comes with it other than that 3g sports tend to be highly optioned and have leather and captain's chairs.

donalson wrote: could always get a toyota "van"

Loved mine. I would own one again. Seriously. I check the internets every month or so, and so far, I've been lucky to have not found one nearby. Surprisingly fun to drive. Dual sunroofs are great, seats are cushy, visibility is really incredible. Mine had the optional ice maker and rear A/C. Neither worked, but for $2000, they probably could. Downsides are that they're getting rare, and I'd be hesitant to suggest one as a daily driver when vans ten years newer and far more common might also fit the price range. Tip: the battery is in the floor behind the driver's seat. Lift up the carpet. I only mention this because of the embarrassing amount of time me and two Goodwill employees spent trying to figure out the puzzle.

Wow, what a wealth of info. Thanks so much for taking the time to share that Vigo. I've been looking in my area for a turbo caravan/voyager casually for about a year now without much luck, but time is up and I need a van to haul my produce to market. My thought is to find the cleanest extended I can and source a turbo 5spd parts car candidate as one comes up. The easy answer would be the turbo 5speed regular length van 2 hours from here, but 4k for a twenty years old van is hard for a cheap-o- like me to pry from the wallet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78InPT4iqlw&feature=player_embedded Wow!

Sounds like a solid plan. If you stick to the 88-90 model grand vans (you dont have to but the eventual turbo swap is easier in those years) you can sometimes find nice-ish ones for practically nothing.

I've had very good luck with my '99 Venture. Paid under $1k for it so I didn't expect much. A $60 Trans-go shift kit fixed my hard shift problem. I expect it to last well into the 200k range.

The only problem I see around my area with the '96-'01 Dodge vans is the shock tower rust. I wanted one because the 3.8L is so reliable, but had to give up the search when I found my Venture.

jrw1621 wrote:

Gearheadotaku wrote: watch out for windstar rust. Ford is having a big issue with the subframes. Google the subject and see what you find.... I'd recommend a GM van, Astro or Safari.

If you are in the rust belt, drive to any Ford Dealership and i the back lot you will see a ton of Windstars awaiting repair for these Ford subframe recalls. My small town dealership typically has 25 units on the back lot. I might avoid a Windstar or at least verify that the recall work has been completed.

I have an '02 with 126K on her. I've done the recall thing and mine was OK after the subframe was resurfaced, I've also replaced the bypass tube (under the intake), and manifold gaskets, and an EGR transducer. None of which were super difficult.

Although I have had good luck with mine, the caution is well advised...

fornetti14 wrote: I've had very good luck with my '99 Venture. Paid under $1k for it so I didn't expect much. A $60 Trans-go shift kit fixed my hard shift problem. I expect it to last well into the 200k range. The only problem I see around my area with the '96-'01 Dodge vans is the shock tower rust. I wanted one because the 3.8L is so reliable, but had to give up the search when I found my Venture.

Which kit did you buy? I just bought a 99 Montana and when it shifts into drive or overdrive it feels like you got rear ended.

In reply to Billy_Bottle_Caps:

I like our $1300 1998 Toyota Sienna XLE. I am slowly fixing minor common issues, like screwing together a broken rear hatch handle. Right now the ABS light is on. I think it needs valve adjustment (256,000 miles). Almost rust free except for the running boards, one of which was missing when I bought it.

The worst part of the Sienna is it rides like a Buick/Toyota. Otherwise it is mostly just right. Smaller than the current vans but enough space for cargo in the back. Enough power and decent mileage. I even like the bland design.

Personally, I think the early 3.0L has plenty of power (194 hp), but TRD did have a supercharger kit for the Sienna, that is suppossedly good up to 340 hp or so.

I'd get a first gen odyessy, it's basically a tall accord.

Or depending on what you're using it for, not quite a minivan but bigger than a car, a first gen CR-V, it's basically a tall 96-00 civic.

That makes for a lot of aftermarket parts and the ability to make something that would normally be pretty beige and boring somewhat fun to drive.

My 3.8 GC averages 24 miles per gallon although from what I hear that is high. I bought it new and have only had a EGR and a speed sensor go bad. When it was new it had a belt pensioner replaced under warranty. I agreed with Vigo, if you change the fluid in the teams it won't let you down. Domestic owners have zero maintenance sense..

Only have a few mini van references....

1st, my brother bought one of the Ponitac versions about 10 years ago. After 4 years and 5 transmissions, he dumped it for $500 when the last one died out of warranty. It had other issues too, but all in all, it was a true POS. They threw a party after it was gone.

My other experiences were good. I dated a girl with a Toyota Previa, and it was the total opposite. About 200k miles with pretty much nothing but maintenance, and she still made out ok when she traded it.

Regular Challenge Pro Alan McCrispin has had a sting of Astros, one with a 350 conversion. That was an awesome van. He even autocrossed it once and didn't come in last by any means. It was scary to watch, but was a seriously cool van.

racerdave600 wrote: My other experiences were good. I dated a girl with a Toyota Previa, and it was the total opposite. About 200k miles with pretty much nothing but maintenance, and she still made out ok when she traded it.

A co-worker had a Previa and loved it. he bought it used and had little trouble with it. He only sold it because it had over 200k miles and it was his family vehicle.

Id really like to try a Previa.. and a Eurovan for that matter. But in either case it's mostly because they're oddballs in the market and i like that.

I have a 1990 and a 1997 Pontiac TransPort. Had them both since they were both brand new. I drive the 1990 TransPort to work 5 days a week and is my utility vehicle on the weekends (put about 150 miles per week on it). Never replaced anything in it. My wife drives the 1997 every day and every where she goes (about the same as the other). The '97 model also makes one 700 mile trip and one 1,200 mile trip every year. Next week, we are needing to get the engine mounts replaced and a new hub assembly replaced and that's it so far.

Can't say I'm disappointed in either of them.