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SnowMongoose
SnowMongoose Reader
3/6/13 11:20 p.m.

I'll make this quick, and as here because I trust y'all more than most of the members of various miata forums.

95, Stick, 123xxx miles on the clock. Last oil change/ full fluid check 1500 miles ago

Last couple weeks there's been some extra noise when clutch is engaged, low hiss when initially pressed, increases a little then stays the same for the last 50% of pedal travel. No effect on feel or engagement.

Driving home tonight, last block from home, start to smell smoke, clutch ceases to disengage fully. Finish drive home, shut her down (in driveway), come inside, start typing.

Master cylinder? Slave?
No evidence of any leaks from my cursory, nighttime, flashlit peek.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/6/13 11:46 p.m.

The smoke is odd. If you're lucky, it's a slave. Easy to check, pull back the boot and see if it's wet inside. If you're unlucky, it could be something like a release bearing.

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic Dork
3/6/13 11:47 p.m.

Throwout bearing?

z31maniac
z31maniac PowerDork
3/6/13 11:49 p.m.

Slave, and if not, the clutch is gone.

Spinout007
Spinout007 GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
3/6/13 11:50 p.m.

What did the smoke smell like would be my first question. Sounds like clutch assembly issues, big help I know. pressure plate failure?

SnowMongoose
SnowMongoose Reader
3/7/13 12:35 a.m.

Keith: Roger that, will take a look after work tomorrow. K_Mick: Had thought that might be it, when it was 'only' making noise
z31: Excuse for an uprated clutch huh? Strangely OK with that.
Spinout: Uh, smoke? Not clutchy like I recall from past experiences, though it's been a long while

Thankfully, my roommate is out of town and left her car if I need it, though this might be an excuse to buy a DD/backup car.
Thanks guys!

foxtrapper
foxtrapper PowerDork
3/7/13 6:09 a.m.

The hiss I suspect is a throwout bearing.

The failure and smoke I suspect are slave cylinder, with the lost fluid dumping onto the exhaust, smoking off.

Dashpot
Dashpot Reader
3/7/13 6:36 a.m.

TB seized and hissed as it burned through the PP fingers.

psteav
psteav GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
3/7/13 8:47 a.m.
foxtrapper wrote: The hiss I suspect is a throwout bearing. The failure and smoke I suspect are slave cylinder, with the lost fluid dumping onto the exhaust, smoking off.

It's the most common failure point on the Miata clutch hydraulics. Thankfully, it's also cheap and easy to fix.

z31maniac
z31maniac PowerDork
3/7/13 9:29 a.m.
foxtrapper wrote: The hiss I suspect is a throwout bearing. The failure and smoke I suspect are slave cylinder, with the lost fluid dumping onto the exhaust, smoking off.

Slave cylinder is on the opposite side of the transmission from the exhaust in the Miata.

iceracer
iceracer UberDork
3/7/13 9:55 a.m.

If the smoke is accompanied by a rank smell. CLUTCH

SnowMongoose
SnowMongoose Reader
3/7/13 6:06 p.m.

One last thing that I forgot to mention, as the car did it's initial transition from 'hissing' to 'ermagerd' she started squealing, belt-issue style.
Only in gear though.

Took a peek at teh slave, didn't seem to be wet inside the boot, though the boot situation in that area was pretty dismal. tears and such. There also seemed to be a surplus of fluids and gunk down there, even after being parked in the dry overnight.
Waiting on in-person backup from people with a more mechanical background, my experience is almost exclusively in the go fast type parts... I'm over my head.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/7/13 6:10 p.m.

Squealing? That's not good. You're going to have to pull that trans. You've probably got a bad bearing. Might be the pilot, if it's seized it would spin the trans slightly even with the clutch disengaged.

SnowMongoose
SnowMongoose Reader
3/7/13 8:40 p.m.

That's what I figured Keith.
Excuse for a FM Happy Meal?
Yep, looks that way.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/7/13 9:43 p.m.

Obviously. Your car has rejected your sub-standard clutch

SnowMongoose
SnowMongoose Reader
3/10/13 2:42 p.m.

Planning to place some orders before the weekend ends...
figuring I should cover all my bases as long as I'm pulling the trans...
happy meal (clutch, Light FW, pilot and release bearings)+ new slave + new throwout + new fork boot + SS clutch line while I'm at it?

What I've read suggests that a new master is optional but probably not necessary?
Anything I'm missing while I'm in the neighborhood?
I'm Ron Burgundy?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/10/13 9:49 p.m.

You rarely have to change the master. Even if you do, it's a separate job from the clutch itself. Don't worry about that unless its a proven failure.

SnowMongoose
SnowMongoose Reader
3/16/13 11:59 p.m.

Update:
Fired her up to maneuver into the garage, noticed a not-insignificant amount of white smoke... from the exhaust
(previously had just been from under the rear of the hood)

I'm berkeleyed, right?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/17/13 12:14 a.m.

You are certainly going to have to lay some eyeballs on this poor thing to try to figure where that's coming from. What you describe isn't making a lot of sense to me so far.

Spinout007
Spinout007 GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
3/17/13 12:17 a.m.

It wasn't a sickly sweet smelling smoke was it?

SnowMongoose
SnowMongoose Reader
3/17/13 12:19 a.m.

Glad I'm on the same (albeit confused) page as someone who has 'some' expertise in this realm.

I like the part where I'm now starting to look for something more reliable to replace a close to stock, relatively low mileage miata.
Foxtrot Mike Lima.

Spinout007
Spinout007 GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
3/17/13 12:27 a.m.

Shoot a quick video, easier to diagnose with sight and sound. There is no reason a low mileage miata shouldn't be reliable as a falling rock. Hell I drove a 200k+ mile one with nothing more than routine maintenance, till I berked up and didn't pay attention when something went flying out from under the car that I didn't recognize as something I didn't run over. (somehow sheared the water pump pulley and got it really hot! Not shut down hot, but hot enough)

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/17/13 12:42 a.m.

We only know what you're telling us.

  • car was making a hissing noise with the clutch
  • car started to smoke from underhood
  • clutch stopped disengaging
  • smoke started coming out the exhaust, no report on the clutch

Figure out the smoke. Like Spinout asked, does it smell sweet? Open the hood, any smoke from anywhere in particular? Don't get all upset yet, get busy.

It might be a Miata, but you're still dealing with a car that's 18 years old and 123k miles. They're not invincible.

SnowMongoose
SnowMongoose Reader
3/17/13 3:48 p.m.

Smoke was coming from the back of the bay, couldn't tell if it was from the front of the tranny or the back of the head.
Didn't smell overtly sweet, no.

I've no illusions about a car with this many years, just disappointing that I get the bum one... at the same time my backup car blows a head gasket.
Bonus points because I'm only an aspiring 'real' GRM guy...
bolt ons, suspension, great, but engine, tranny, or electrical, I'm hopeless.

peter
peter HalfDork
3/17/13 4:34 p.m.

Where has the coolant temperature gauge been this entire time?

Have you checked the coolant hoses at the back of the head, on the driver's side? Two hoses there going to and from the heater core. If one burst, you could be getting smoke from the back of the bay, then overheat due to lack of coolant, then... coolant in the cylinders?

Dunno. Throwing that out there. More info needed.

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