I am considering buyin a used domestic sedan from north at auction. Being a southerner i am naive about rust. The car in question would be a GM product between 2011 and 2015 model year. What rust do I need to be concerned with out of WI MI IL NY PA area?
When i lived in northwest Pennsylvania, after 3 years rockers an quarters were gone. 5-7 years, everything below the windshield was gone. This was the late 80s to early 90s though, so hopefully things have changed.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
Was that pre galvanized era?
In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :
I dont think so. But i just edited the original post for clarity while you were posting....
In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :
Galvanized or not, the problem is the fasteners, brake/fuel lines & fittings, subframes, etc. They may be ok now, but when they need service it’ll be significantly more of a pita to work on.
In reply to Pete Gossett :
That's what worries me.
If you're a southerner looking at a northern auction, may I suggest an auction from the desert southwest.
My Miata was an almost completely rust free looking car, but underneath the skin are a couple significant issues.
And there was a post on here about a guy with a not that old (well, to me...) Mazda where the subframe rusted out.
Unless it's just the right car for the right price and you won't keep it long and you'll never do any serious work on it, Phoenix is a pretty big market and I'd look there.
For what that's worth...
Fasteners. There may be some creeping rust hiding in the folds of the doors and such but that will take a while to peek out. It's the nuts and bolts. The bushing sleeves. Rust makes one hell of a loctite.
The good thing is cars for the most part have much better corrosion protection today than they used to. However, there are always some exceptions, you'll see a particular make or model that has rust in specific spots a lot sooner than they should. One that comes to mind is Hondas, which always seem to develop rust in the lower quarter panels right behind the rear wheels. Also remember that besides sheet metal, you have to be concerned about the condition of bolts and fasteners underneath the car. They can often get frozen in place making it tough to repair or replace things like suspension parts.
Depending on what you're looking for, sometimes buying a northern car can be a plus - say for example, a Miata, a Corvette, or other sports cars. Many of them get stored over the winter, so they will actually be in nicer condition than a southern car. Another thing is northern cars generally don't get as much sun damage, so the paint on the roof/hood/trunk doesn't get burned up and the interiors tend to last longer.
My 1999 Miata has rusted rockers and front frame rails. My wife's 2006 Scion has very little rust other than some surface rust underneath. The 2003 MINI has rust starting around the tail light buckets (design issue). These are all daily driven through Michigan winters. Rust will vary with mileage. frequency of use, frequency of being washed, heated storage, etc. Get pictures of the underside of the vehicle you're considering before buying.
OK... What I'm specifically considering is a Chev Caprice PPV...popo car known also as 9c1 or 9c3 (detective version). With 6 liter L77
Don't do it. Thems cop cars are out in every weather.
Compare my 1996 Ford F250 to your own, even older F250
Close up pics of fenders.
If you bring the car south and stop exposing it to salt/snow, that does not stop the rusting process. It has already begun.
In reply to John Welsh :
Point well taken....
My F250 still runs great and is sturdy by my expectations but when it was hit in the rear bumper the bumper just crumbled. It was that rusty.
Sure, you can buy the northern car cheaper but what you spend in upcharge for the southern car will be saved in hasles with the northern car.
If your goal is to get a cop car within Challenge budget, they yeah, you might have to buy northern. However, after the Challenge you will have a hard time getting your purchase price back from someone in the south who actually looks at the car before buying it.
There are a too many cars in the desert SW to bother looking in the rust belt.
Personally, I wouldn't do it. My 1994 Miata spent it's early life in the southwest. I'm assuming it came to Michigan in a relatively clean state, since the first several title holders were in AZ and NV. As far as I can tell from the title history, it was only in Michigan for 2 winters. I NEVER drove it in snow myself and rarely drove it in rain, but the damage was already done. It ended up needing new wheel arches and rockers. More importantly, EVERY SINGLE nut and bolt was a hassle. One could never assume anything would be a "10 minute job" because there was always the chance something would alternatively refuse to move or snap/round off the head. It just isn't worth it. Some cars are definitely better than others as far as body rot, and actually 8 to 10 year old GM sedans seem to be holding up pretty well, but the fasteners will make you wish the rest of the car WOULD rot away.
In reply to John Welsh :
No...no challeng intent. Budget of $7,000 to $10,000+. Just want poor man's SS.
I live in the great northeast and I see a lot less rusty cars, even some from the early 2000's. My '13 Fiesta looked new when I traded it in.
So I guess it depends.
The only northern cars that are worth anything are one's that aren't driven in the snow.
I had a 1988 Ford Van which are famous for rusting away up here. The one that I bought in 2002 had never been driven in the snow as it was used just to tow a race car by the PO.
I only used it for that same purpose and it was still mostly rust free when I sold in 2017.
In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :
That's solid money to spend, I'd look for auctions in known good climates.
I've been in SoAZ for 25 years, something has to be pretty well neglected for the "sun damage" referenced above.
Any cop car will have had a hard life, why add rust to it?
That said, most departments have moved to SUVs, and for a while. Phoenix or SoCal is probably your best bet - just more people/more departments using those cars and likely to have some in inventory.
Don't think just LA, either, the Inland Empire is huge. Pretty sure San Bernardino county is the largest in the nation, so I would think SBCSO should have something.
Let my cop car just be the exception that proves the rule. It was rust free, which was amazing for an 11 year old PA car, but it had been beat to E36 M3 in every other way.
Texas, Nevada, Arizona, SoCal, NorCal, those other desert flyover states should be pretty easy to scrounge something up, definitely in your price range.
Not that auction prices are static or anything, but 2013+ Taurus based AWD turbo cop cars have been changing hands at the PA state auction for around $5k with 100ish thousand miles on them, I assume the 9C1s would be similar or cheaper in better climates.
There are enough 9C1s timing out of municipalities that you should wait for a more southern or western one. Most of them go between $3,500-6,000 regardless of location.
Pete Gossett said:In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :
Galvanized or not, the problem is the fasteners, brake/fuel lines & fittings, subframes, etc. They may be ok now, but when they need service it’ll be significantly more of a pita to work on.
This
Brine cost me a bunch of money on the '09 E92, all underneath E36 M3. Sheet metal perfect. Loved the car but had to unload.
Dusterbd13-michael said:When i lived in northwest Pennsylvania, after 3 years rockers an quarters were gone. 5-7 years, everything below the windshield was gone. This was the late 80s to early 90s though, so hopefully things have changed.
They have, for the better. Mostly the bodies stay good except for the pinch welds still get weak on certain cars. Subframes are sacrificial but those are getting better too.
Ovid_and_Flem said:In reply to Pete Gossett :
That's what worries me.
Why? You can fix all those things. You can't fix a rotted shell except for buying a new car.
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