Modern cars just to competent to have fun legally?

Knurled wrote: I feel that a '95 Cavalier handles, brakes, and accelerates too well to probe its limits while staying to the legal side of responsible driving on public roads.

I don't know what to suggest. It seems that there are some almost diametrically opposed desires here. You want it to be modern with an interior that is better than an Abarth 500, but it has to be fun to drive and have soul. It has to be less visually distracting then an Elise or a hot rod, yet you want it to be different than the average everyday car.

So you want something that is well made, old, modern, stylish, but not too stylish, fast, but not too fast, sporty and fun to drive, but also good for sitting in a SoCal traffic jam and can also be used to pick up some groceries?

T.J. wrote: So you want something that is well made, old, modern, stylish, but not too stylish, fast, but not too fast, sporty and fun to drive, but also good for sitting in a SoCal traffic jam and can also be used to pick up some groceries?

Redacted.

I want something that is extremely well made, modern safety, very stylish, and fun to flog at a reasonable speed. But also good for sitting in a So-Cal traffic jam without overheating or catching on fire like say my 308 did.

NSX,best example you can find?

Maroon92 wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: When I worked at a Ford dealership in the 90's, my favorite car to run errands in was an Aspire. Slow as molasses, so I could drive the wheels off it and nobody would notice.

THANK YOU! I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks that. I had an Aspire for about a year and a half, and loved every single 6500 rpm shift. It wasn't capable, but it was just so fun to cane it like a rented mule.

For me, this was my then-fiance's (now wife) 1992 Mazda Protege. I would drive the piss out of that car and enjoy it every singe time. Not fast enough to get in trouble, but always fun!

(EDIT: Not her car but a dead ringer)

As for the OP's question, it seems like a Cayman might be more appealing than a 911.

I think an Evora is your best choice. Toyota engine reliability, modern safety, stylish, exclusive, will definitely feel like an "occasion" when driving. Not "too" fast, but being a Lotus, I'd imagine it's fun to drive at any speed. It's got a back seat for groceries. Porsches are all over the place in SoCal, a Lotus is special.

I'd wait for the Alfa, but it's tiny size puts it in the same camp as the Elise. And when it finally shows up it's brand new and there is potential for crazy mark-ups.

TRoglodyte wrote: NSX,best example you can find?

I believe that this is the answer.

Lol, I can see where the whole catching on fire while sitting in traffic would be a turn off. The borg is pointing you to the Evora. Maybe go to a different Lotus dealer and see how they are?

nicksta43 wrote:

wearymicrobe wrote:

RoughandReady wrote: I know what you want....

With a full cage yes I absolutely do. These have soul.

I totally wouldn't be apposed to putting a helmet on every day for the commute to and from work in that.

I've commuted in many a "death trap." I've also commuted in death traps.

Evora, nsx, nicely equiped cayman. Nice shopping list!

The answer here is own a fleet of awesome cars and bikes. When one bugs you swap to another for DD. What's the fleet look like now? Last I remember there was a Ford coupe with a flathead, viper, prowler and not sure what else. I go to LA at least once every year or two to see family and my vote would be bike, my DD is a k1300s, but you've already shot that one down. If it were me I'd add some more cool stuff to the stable and just rotate. The bike is my primary DD, but on any given day I could be driving a number of cars that might annoy me if I had to live with them everyday, but that I love in smaller doses.

Yes it's like driving a tractor, but it's like driving a tractor!

That may be the first time i've heard anyone else use that expression besides myself. Part of the reason why the 80s are just about my favorite decade for cars is that a lot of cars in the 80s had the major high points of modernity (fuel injection, 'good' brakes, not obscenely overweight, etc) with the 'feel' of very simple machines.

I like my k-cars for their simplicity and lack of 'isolation' from the outside world, but i think one of the most fun slow cars i've ever driven was a 1985 Toyota 4runner 2.4/5spd. That thing was a blast.

In reply to Vigo:

+1, I DD'ed an '89 (same generation) 4 cyl./5 spd. until a couple years ago and it really is more engaging to drive 99% of the time than just about anything else I've owned, including my 350Z and 1st Gen Sentra SE-R.

im starting to get attatched to my sundance for a DD, its crazy how easy it is to find a fun daily if you dont mind older cars and fixing other peoples errors!

Somebody said Evora. That seems like a perfect fit. Competent, but maybe not overly-so. They're not overpowered, they look good, and they're not as tiny as the Elise on the inside. They drive SO nicely, and that interior is just amazing (even if the door handles do "feel" like they're going to snap off in your hand).

Since you're already in the MINI family, how about a R50?

Maroon92 wrote:

Knurled wrote: I feel that a '95 Cavalier handles, brakes, and accelerates too well to probe its limits while staying to the legal side of responsible driving on public roads.

Note that I said '95... the first year after they did away with the Kadett style steering/suspension. Granted, it looked like a 9/8ths scale Jetta, but that's not a bad chassis to crib, either. The steering and suspension were plenty responsive and the brakes more than acceptable, the chassis is stiff instead of noodly like the old box J-bodies, and even the 2.2 pushrod engine is plenty enough power. When they first came out, I was shocked that GM bothered to make something so non-crappy for their cheapest car. (At the time, the N-bodies were still utter E36 M3boxes, and the W-bodies were floppy heavy clunky turds) They've aged well, too - they still feel like decent cars that do everything you ask of them without major shortcoming.

Note that my daily driver is a car that is surpassed in every way by a '95 Cavalier in every possible way except for wagonness, and I have to curtail my "having fun" on the street. Unfortunately, I have the points on my license that suggest I haven't curtailed that fun enough. So if you think of that car as a E36 M3box, and I point out that it's too competent to have fun legally... well then that just proves my point, isn't it? The apparent bar for "not a E36 M3box" is well above what can be acceptably probed on the street, so therefore... modern cars are too competent.

dropstep wrote: i tend to stick with cars built before 1990, the worst daily ive owned was my 97 civic and it was just boring!

I would have to somewhat disagree. I've driven a 97 and the chassis was fantastic for curvy back road hooning. The double wishbone front was the cleanest handling FWD I have ever driven.

What killed it was that it belonged to SWMBO and had an auto. I cursed that slushbox every time I drove it.

Vigo wrote:

Yes it's like driving a tractor, but it's like driving a tractor!

That may be the first time i've heard anyone else use that expression besides myself. Part of the reason why the 80s are just about my favorite decade for cars is that a lot of cars in the 80s had the major high points of modernity (fuel injection, 'good' brakes, not obscenely overweight, etc) with the 'feel' of very simple machines. I like my k-cars for their simplicity and lack of 'isolation' from the outside world, but i think one of the most fun slow cars i've ever driven was a 1985 Toyota 4runner 2.4/5spd. That thing was a blast.

Hey, I had an 87 4x4 with a 22r and that thing was a HOOT to drive. It seriously felt like you were in a pint-sized tank!

Stock early miata on 4" wide 13s and 145mm maypop tires? It will drive like a MGA Twin Cam that wont kill you if you screw up. If its still too competent, you can always set the camber somewhere in the positive area.

sounds like the OP needs a better hot-rod. joe touring FTW.

88hp rebadged Mazda 323 of the same year. Thing was a blast. I get what you guys are going on about in the Aspire. This was mine.

Serious answer, 97 NSX-T.

Petrolburner wrote: Serious answer, 97 NSX-T.

It is one of the best answers so far.

Very serious problem with the NSX though at least the last one I drove, it has no footwell room. Size 12 double wide feet so I have some serious issues with the actual driving of the car. I actually fit in the cabin pretty well and the seats are great.

My budget would let me get a 02-05 but I am not sure if they have more or less room in the footwell. There is the automatics but I have never driven one.

In reply to wearymicrobe:

I'd prefer the 97-01 for the 3.2 motor but still with the pop up lights. The exposed lights never grew on me and I love the NSX. I've always wanted one.