More fun with "what car"

Will be in the market to replace my wife's VW new Beetle with something more practical for a family. Need's to accomodate a baby seat with 4 doors plus room to tote around stuff. Not a big fan of SUVs in general and leaning towards a wagon. She hates Subaru's so that is out of the question (and my first suggestion). We frequently tote big things like bicycles. Needs to have some character, manual transmission (she likes to row her own gears!), no more than around 36k miles, and cost no more than around $25k. Ideally it would be somewhat luxurious and get at least mid-20's mpg on the highway (if not better). Also, since she will be driving in snow I would like FWD or AWD. All this and be reliable too...

So, some considerations:

BMW 535xi wagon - I think this new bodystyle makes for a sexy wagon. Earlier models can possibly meet the price range. Unsure of reliability and fuel mileage is a little weak.

Audi A4 Avant (wagon) - This pretty much fits the bill, but have had bad experience with VW reliability, so a little hesitant to go there.

Audi S4 Avant - freakin' wicked - this would be my choice but she doesn't need the power, and the fuel mileage is horrible

Saab 9-5 Coombi - I just found a 2006 on ebay that in theory meets the criteria, but I'm not into the exterior styling

If Honda made a wagon version of their new Accord that would be cool, but it doesn't exist. Personally I think a Subaru Legacy GT wagon or Forester XT would be great, but again... she won't go there. I also love the boxy Volvo wagons, but she doesn't like those either.

That's all I can think of for now. Suggestions?

Very easy! Get the Saabaru wagon! It's really a WRX underneath so you know it's good, and she'll think it's a Saab. Win-win if you ask me.

I know it doesn't fit the criteria of a manual, but a Honda Odyssey EX-L meets everything else and then some. I've had 2 for the Wife, and will probably go back to one next year when her Pilot lease is up.

I'm a bit partial to BMWs, but I think the BMW will be more reliable than the Audi. I wouldn't bother with the AWD on the BMW, invest in good snow tires instead (but that's a whole other argument...) You could look for an E46 3-series wagon, but that may not be big enough in the back for a baby seat - you'd have to try it out for fit.

Scott

Just gonna throw it out there about the Saab: we have the sedan with the 5 speed. If I drive it for a week, I get an average of 27 mpg, about 60% city driving. If my dad drives it for a week, he gets about 24, same city/highway.

And it is amazing in the snow. My friend and I went onto an iced over parking lot, and tried to do hand brake spins. We couldn't. The car won't spin out. period. The only time it ever got stuck was when I had to back it out of my friends really long driveway, and it just stopped moving because it had pushed snow up to the top of the trunk. My dad has owned 4wd chevy trucks and a Mercedes ML, and he says the saab is the best car he's owned in the snow

P71 wrote: Very easy! Get the Saabaru wagon! It's really a WRX underneath so you know it's good, and she'll think it's a Saab. Win-win if you ask me.

haha - I tried that already, she caught on real quick my avatar disappeared since the new GRM site went up, but I have the WRX wagon already - we don't need to have the "same" car...definitely a cool car though, just wouldn't be big enough

Element? Focus Wagon? Passat Wagon? Volvo V-40/70? (or whatever the badging is now)

There was a sweet Jag S or X type wagon that was on CL here a while ago....very nice.

Since I'm in ultra cheap mode, I'll say my old stand by answer: "1991 Honda Civic RTAWD wagon".

Mazda 6 V6

Mazdaspeed3

Mazdaspeed6

Pontiac Grand Prix GT

P71?

Thanks for all the great answers. I added another caveat about the traditional boxy Volvo wagons being out (aka V70) but some of the newer "swoopier" ones might be good. I'll have to look into the Saab's some more after the feedback above. I'm a firm believer in snow tires, although I think I'd be worried with her in RWD on the occasional snow day in Chicago - although I suppose I could always trade cars with her on those days and practice my drifting....

Passat is worth investigating to see if they made a manual wagon version. In general I'm thinking the Element, Focus, 3-series, Saabaru/WRX are too small.

I tend to make myself a pariah on this topic, but I'm a firm advocate AGAINST* fwd in the snow. My two worst snow cars were fwd, my two best were rwd. It all comes down to tires, and tire width. The only real advantage fwd has is the weight of the engine over the drive wheels, which is easily negated with a bag or two of concrete mix in the trunk.

asterisk - I find that fwd cars are very unpredictable in slick conditions in regards to over/understeer, and once they let go, are nigh impossible to get back under control before sliding into a snowbank.

double asterisk - of course, I'll always suggest AWD over anything else, double especially over 4WD!

Regarding vehicle choice, it's unfortunate Pontiac is choosing to not import the wagon version of the G8! Speaking of, what about one of the AWD Magnums? They're rare, but out there, and considering Chrysler's financial state, should be able to be picked up for a song...

I have a 3 series wagon and would agree that it's on the smallish side. Then again, I get 28 MPG on the highway and could always use a roof top carrier if there was too much stuff to carry.

Click on my avatar for a better picture. It's sweet looking!

As for what to buy, you could wait for this:http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=130761

A Caddy wagon!?!

What about the Mazda 5? Or, is that too "mini-van" for her? They do come with 5 speed manuals.

A used Mazda 6 wagon could be good but no manual. I think you should look into a Volvo V70 with a manual. The newer models are not that boxy.

I'm not seeing the reason for a wagon... you said you already have a 'buru wagon you can use and bicycles do not fit regardless so they need a rack anyway. I can get an 8yr old & a 5yr old comfortably in the back of my 911 so there goes the need for a "big" car - I'll grant a trunk large enough for a stroller though.

So... under $25k, less than 36k miles, manual transmission, 4 doors, bicycle rack, snow tires. Considerably easier demographic... BMW 330i

mtn wrote: And it is amazing in the snow. My friend and I went onto an iced over parking lot, and tried to do hand brake spins. We couldn't. The car won't spin out. period.

I'm not saying it isn't a great snow car, but something tells me that if you drive fast enough, turn hard enough, and yank on that e-brake hard enough, the car WILL spin.

jrw1621 wrote: What about the Mazda 5? Or, is that too "mini-van" for her? They do come with 5 speed manuals. A used Mazda 6 wagon could be good but no manual. I think you should look into a Volvo V70 with a manual. The newer models are not that boxy.

6 wagon was available in 05 and 06 with a 5-speed. wagons only came with the v6, which means they like to eat clutches after about 25k

Helterskelter wrote:

mtn wrote: And it is amazing in the snow. My friend and I went onto an iced over parking lot, and tried to do hand brake spins. We couldn't. The car won't spin out. period.

I'm not saying it isn't a great snow car, but something tells me that if you drive fast enough, turn hard enough, and yank on that e-brake hard enough, the car WILL spin.

We got it up to 35 and yanked it all the way. We got a little sideways, but there was no spinning.

Look up the Top Gear about the 9-5, Clarkson mentions that it does not spin.

I am going to second the mazda6 wagon or the mazdaspeed6 The speed6 is awd turbo with 276hp (same motor as the speed3). Its a fun car and depreciation is murdering their price on the used market.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/cto/804267135.html
swap in a turbo motor and have some fun. it's practical, they are GREAT in the snow, and it has the required 5 speed.
you can easily haul bikes in there, they are a breeze to park (much shorter than you think) Mileage is easy to improve. I'm getting 18 mpg out of my 3.3 A/T and that is mostly city driving.

Strizzo wrote:

jrw1621 wrote: What about the Mazda 5? Or, is that too "mini-van" for her? They do come with 5 speed manuals. A used Mazda 6 wagon could be good but no manual. I think you should look into a Volvo V70 with a manual. The newer models are not that boxy.

6 wagon was available in 05 and 06 with a 5-speed. wagons only came with the v6, which means they like to eat clutches after about 25k

I actually thought about the Mazda 6, but when I checked out their site I couldn't find any wagons...well - you answered the availability, I'll have to add that to the list.

Regarding the RWD, I shouldn't rule it out.

For some reason she really wants a wagon/large hatchback and not a trunk. I'm not sure why exactly. My father-in-law has an '02 530i with a manual trans that we could probably get a deal on, but the darn rear seats don't fold down. The new bodystyle 5-series wagons are AWD (which is fine) and the previous body style doesn't seem to be available with a manual. At least not as far as I've seen.

The old (last years and beyond) Volvo V70 R is also frickin' awesome, but she refuses on principle. The new Volvo's don't come with a manual anymore!

Mini-vans in general are out - no matter how good the Honda is or how cool a turbo chrysler would be. In general, I'm pretty biased against GM, Chrysler & Ford vehicles - I've owned too many with too many problems. After looking at the Saab interior some more it looks too "GM'ey".

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

How about the Toyota Matrix / Pontiac VIbe? Especially one of the older ones with the 180hp engine

kingbeann wrote: My father-in-law has an '02 530i with a manual trans that we could probably get a deal on, but the darn rear seats don't fold down. The new bodystyle 5-series wagons are AWD (which is fine) and the previous body style doesn't seem to be available with a manual. At least not as far as I've seen.

I bet you could convert to folding rear seats. Just a thought...

Scott

I'm currently watching 2 different cars on CarMax that could fit the bill:

an '06 Mazda6 wagon with the manual tranny....about $14,500

an '06 Mazda5 with the manual tranny....about a grand cheaper.

If I were to buy either, I'd probably go with the 5, as it would be a taller wagonish vehicle and my early arthritis would make it (slightly?) easier to get in and out of than the 6. And I read on here that C&D had challenged some school to mod a Mazda5 with MazdaSpeed3 parts....I would love to duplicate the suspension part of that car.

the thing about the 6 wagon over the 5 is that the 5 is only available with the stick in the sport(base) model, which is still pretty well equipped. the 6 wagon is more likely to have leather, 6cd bose, sunroof, etc. another option if you can't find a 6 wagon new/low miles enough might be the hatch version of the 6, which looks almost identical to the sedan, but has a hatch instead of the trunk. the seats fold down and theres good space in the back. easiest way to tell them apart is to look for the rear wiper on the hatch versions.

if you're wanting to do the ms3 suspension to the 5, you might as well skip straight to the cobb sport springs on some takeoff ms3 struts. maybe see if the cobb ms3 swaybars will bolt up to the 5 as well. the earlier ( up to 05) 3 hatches can use the ms3 rear sways with a spacer to keep the rear bar from rubbing something. the front cobb bar has known interference issues at full droop, but theres no telling if that'll be different on the 5(btw, the cobb sways and springs are manufactured by hotchkis to cobb specs, so anything hotchkis will fit the same as anything cobb[and will be stiffer]) .

You seemed interested in the passat. What you really want is either a Jetta 1.8T wagon with the 5 speed or a Jetta TDi wagon. Both cool cars, 1.8 gets decent mileage TDi is friekin SWEET!

With the magic seats in the honda Fit-s my friend can fit his 9 foot surfboard inside it. While its not fast it seems fun to drive. Meets all of your criteria besides possibly luxury. In the new 09 you can get such luxury features as satnav though. Unless your wife has some sort of aversion to one i would highly recommend you give one a test drive.

My Matrix has been really good on a couple of fronts: interior space and fuel economy. I'm 6'2" and I can fit my bicycle in the back without removing the wheels or seatpost, and I can sleep in the back, too. A couple days ago I hauled home a 2-ton engine hoist. The headroom and cargo space seems bigger than Impreza, Focus, Protege...much more like the Saabs I've known for hauling. I average no less than 30mpg and have seen 40 on the highway. I have the 138hp version with the 5-speed. The 180hp 6-speed looks tempting on paper, but the final drive is something like 4.7 or 5.1 or in that ballpark, so highway revs are way up and fuel mileage is way down when compared to the lesser versions.

I still wouldn't recommend one for you. Why? It isn't that great in the snow...I normally do well in the slippery stuff, but I put mine in the ditch on the way home from picking it up! It isn't bad, but I bet one of the Swedes is more sure-footed.

On top of that, they aren't even remotely semi-luxury. They are good basic cars and drive/ride like such. I might put it a small notch above a Kia or a Chevy in refinement, but it will pale in comparison to a BMW, Volvo, or cars of that ilk.