racerfink said:All 1LE’s get the track warranty. You can also take one straight to the track with no changes to anything (pads, tires) and run every session.
Randy Pobst bought a 2.0t 1LE, and does track days all the time with it. He has a few videos of the car on his Youtube page.
This. These and the 2nd gen CTS-V were developed to run on the track as delivered. Brake pads and all. And they work.
In reply to MattGent :
I have a potentially silly question; have you driven any faster cars on track?
The reason for my asking is faster isn't always more enjoyable. Many moons ago I spent three seasons with a very fast single seater, while it was way more of an adrenaline rush than your average Formula Ford, the rate at which it went through consumables sucked the fun out of it for me. It was cool to go 20 seconds a lap faster but that wore off quickly.
Faster doesn't always equal more fun.
Have you tried an Exocet yet?? If one of those work for you, they are faster and glorious fun.
If that doesn't work I'd lean towards a CTS-V, deals on those seem to be available.
Tom1200 said:Have you tried an Exocet yet?? If one of those work for you, they are faster and glorious fun.
Some assembly required :) But you make an excellent point - fun isn't necessarily about ultimate speed. Exocets are a great combo of low consumable use, a chassis that encourages hooliganism and a fairly affordable price point if your time is not worth anything. Fast enough to be a good time but more importantly really fun.
As for the original question, Emilio at 949 Racing has a lot of good things to say about the capabilities of one of the recent fast Mustangs off the showroom floor. The one with the flat plane crank - GT350? He replaced a C7 Z06 with it.
I bought a Lancer Evolution VIII brand new back in 2003. It was phenomenal on track in close to 100% stock form, including the OEM Yokohama tires. Like all cars, it did benefit from better brake pads/fluid, but that was the only real "mod" needed.
Are S2000's out of the question?
In reply to yupididit :
That might be a bit tight on price unless the OP gets a pretty high mileage AP1.
Keith Tanner said:As for the original question, Emilio at 949 Racing has a lot of good things to say about the capabilities of one of the recent fast Mustangs off the showroom floor. The one with the flat plane crank - GT350? He replaced a C7 Z06 with it.
I think those are about triple the stated budget. :)
As for Exocets, they're faster than Miatas because they're lighter and are a ton of fun, but the aero drag is terrible. I don't know if they'd yield a faster lap time than a Miata at a high speed track like the ones mentioned (Sebring and Daytona)
IMHO the "best track car" progression, going upwards in price and downwards in lap time is Miata => M3 => 911. E46 M3s have been going up in value lately and getting one in under the stated budget is likely to be tricky. E36 M3s have also been going up but are probably doable. A non-M car is going to be less, but they all have open diffs and upgrading them to LSDs is expensive.
Right, missed the budget. And wow, those things are holding value.
Based on my experience chasing Spec Miatas at Laguna Seca, an Exocet with a stock 1994 1.8 would hold station down the straight - it had a faster corner exit speed which made up for any drag at the top end. It was faster than the Spec under braking, cornering and acceleration. So as long as we're not doing pure superspeedways, I'd still put my money on the light draggy car.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
A friend owns one and we've discussed installing full width bodywork; something simple like a 70s sport racers. This would negate the aero wall Exocets hit at about 100mph.
What's the end goal with the HPDE? I didn't see a requirement for a license plate, would a used Spec E30/46 do it for you? Fully race prepped with a full cage, harnesses, seat and a logbook, you'd probably just need to add an equal passenger seat and harness back in and go have fun. As you progress you are ready to go all the way to wheel to wheel if wanted.
Keith Tanner said:Based on my experience chasing Spec Miatas at Laguna Seca, an Exocet with a stock 1994 1.8 would hold station down the straight - it had a faster corner exit speed which made up for any drag at the top end. It was faster than the Spec under braking, cornering and acceleration. So as long as we're not doing pure superspeedways, I'd still put my money on the light draggy car.
My impression is that Laguna counts as a medium speed track, with things like Road America, VIR, and Willow Springs being much faster. I'm not sure where Sebring and Daytona (presumably the infield road course) fit in.
Sure, we can continue to pile conditions on until we get to a point where an Exocet is no faster than the same car with better (but still not great) aero and an extra 900 lbs of weight. Even if it's not any faster, it'll FEEL a lot faster and you'll be having more fun. Until the prize money at HPDEs improves, that would be my choice.
I could not recommend the RX8 enough.
Mine's completely stock, save for the fluid changes, stoptech sport brake pads, and 245-series Toyo Proxes R888r's on stock rims. On my trackdays, I do the school run (2-kids), 4x 20-minute sessions from 8 to 1300, and commute to work afterwards and the only thing I have to change is my clothes.
I absolutely love it.
Keith Tanner said:Sure, we can continue to pile conditions on until we get to a point where an Exocet is no faster than the same car with better (but still not great) aero and an extra 900 lbs of weight. Even if it's not any faster, it'll FEEL a lot faster and you'll be having more fun. Until the prize money at HPDEs improves, that would be my choice.
Unless the condition is being able to run most HPDE groups and include the safety aspect of actual fenders/a fixed roof.
If the point is a HPDE car, might want to maximize events by running something most run groups allow.
Otherwise an exocet would be in my garage already :-)
The end goal is to have fun with my dad, in a safe reliable car which is faster than the Miata we used for the last 10 years. With as little prep as possible.
I have other projects and responsibilities that require time. I had all the Miata parts in my garage and actively chose not to build an Exocet. I would like a plate (PBIR is 15 minutes away). Seems about a third of caged race cars I've seen ads for still have a title attached. I have access to a trailer but no room to store one here. Don't need an interior, a/c would be nice but not needed, no regular street usage.
Miata > M3 > 911 is where I think this is headed. The entire corner-carvers group followed that path about 10 years ago (though maybe it was more like Mustang > M3 > 911). There are enough track-prepared E36 cars around that one is likely to be right place/time/budget soon enough. I have driven faster cars on the street and at autocross, but not on a full road course. I also owned a shifter kart but that's different altogether.
Each path I've gone down it seems like there is some substantial upgrade that is required for reliable hot day tracking. Time constraints dictate more plug-n-play at the moment. I hoped C5 was the answer but if I blow up an engine I won't have time to rebuild or replace it. My co-driver dad has a Z4M, but we'd like something more disposable. From a performance & cost standpoint, E36/E46 M3, 350/370Z, pony cars, evo/dsm are right in the ballpark. A C5/C6 may be faster than I'm comfortable with for my dad. Just want to run track days and not have a project to get there or a ticking time bomb.
I'd be perfectly happy with a K-powered Miata but wasn't ready to take on that project for my car. Forced induction and hot track days are not an equation I want to solve. Actual lap times aren't so important. I'd like for turns that were taken flat to be more of a challenge, and to more easily pass cars who point but won't let off in the straights for a Miata.
In reply to MattGent :
With those parameters I'd lean toward a E36 M3 with the appropriate track upgrades, as those are so user friendly on the edge. I'm a die hard Japanese car guy but having driven 3 student's E36 I was impressed by their user friendliness (note the cars were mostly stock)
My other thought is to simply wait for a prepped car or a swapped Miata to come along and just continue to run what you have in the meantime.
Keith Tanner said:Sure, we can continue to pile conditions on until we get to a point where an Exocet is no faster than the same car with better (but still not great) aero and an extra 900 lbs of weight. Even if it's not any faster, it'll FEEL a lot faster and you'll be having more fun. Until the prize money at HPDEs improves, that would be my choice.
I didn't make this up, Matt's original question specified:
-Faster than a bolt-ons NB Miata around Sebring or Daytona
ProDarwin said:A sorted E36 or E46 would be on my list. Not sure how much faster than an NB they are.
I imagine the Veloster N can be found in that price range, still under warranty for track use.
Yeah, kick up the budget just a bit and you can get a brand new one. That would be pretty appealing if I liked FWD.
GTwannaB said:https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ctd/d/sacramento-2011-chevrolet-camaro-2ss/7280973942.html SS 1le
Too bad the 1LE package launched in 2013 and someone just wrapped the hood on this one.
In reply to bmw88rider (Supportive Dude) :
That would explain the price. This place knows alll
spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:Vajingo said:Nc Miata. Faster than an nb with Michael Bolton's. Better chassis. Better tire choices. Low consumables. 2.5 swap is cheap. Embarrass the guys with vipers in the corners.
Throw out the "factory spec" requirement and this is the best option to upgrade from the NB.
Suspension, tune, roll bar and pick how new or old of an NC you want and it will determine if you're at half or closer to your full budget amount.
Yep. A NC with the above and a header/exhaust/intake is probably a lot quicker than you'd expect and a lot of fun to drive. My '94R is about as far as I can take a normally aspirated Miata (suspension, built '99 head, megasquirt, header, Hoosier A7s, etc.) and it's not nearly as fast as the NC I ran a while back.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:spandak said:Porsches seem to handle track work well.
Not the ones you can find for under $20k.
My 986S says otherwise.
I like the NC idea.
I can't help but think a 350/370Z is a bargain for the performance you get and the cost to remedy the cooling issues has got to be fairly reasonable. There are tons of these out on tracks, there must be a simple aftermarket formula to fix them. Damn its consumables will cost more though.
I'll +1 the RX-8 suggestions. They have great brakes stock. Track time is a great way to help the longevity of those engines. The local guys that track RX-8 all have above 100k miles on their engines and for the budget, you could probably get the nicest one in North America.
Having driven both a pretty heavily modded NB and an almost stock RX-8 back to back, the RX8 is much faster. But it doesn't feel faster if that is important to you.
You'll need to log in to post.
