In reply to ProDarwin :
Is the cooling issues just engine cooling or wasn't there a brake cooling issue as well? I keep looking at the 370Z and remember something about brakes from the early ones.
In reply to ProDarwin :
Is the cooling issues just engine cooling or wasn't there a brake cooling issue as well? I keep looking at the 370Z and remember something about brakes from the early ones.
Definitely E36 M3 for your budget. All day long. You'll find multiple very nicely set up cars and still have money left over. They'll also rip apart an NB lap time wise.
This seems like the best answer to your question, and right around your budget of $20k.
I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but I quick look on a few car sale sites show that you can find a 2013+ Golf R for just under 20K. That nets you AWD, turbo (easily upgradable and lots of availabilty of parts), bigger brakes than a GTI and a Stick. Add in the hatch, you could haul race rubber with you as well.
bmw88rider (Supportive Dude) said:In reply to ProDarwin :
Is the cooling issues just engine cooling or wasn't there a brake cooling issue as well? I keep looking at the 370Z and remember something about brakes from the early ones.
I thought the brake issue on the 370 was just the factory pads which have a dramatic fall off when they overheat? Not sure. But again, even if a brake kit of some sort is required, I'm betting that could be done in the budget and its not a major undertaking. I guess it depends how under-braked it is.
If its just a radiator, oil cooler, ducting, and a front brake kit, it still seems like it could be a lot of car for the $.
The 350/570 also have diff cooling issues. And a couple reported the transmission too.
I've seen a couple track-ready cars pop up in the right budget, not in the right region yet.
Still looking for the right track-prepped 3 series.
Since you have the Miata & it's a good platform, what about a K24 Turbo swap?
kmiata.com.
If I had a good Miata & wanted to go faster that's what I would do.
Or even without a turbo to start, just an NA K24A with a a 50 deg vtc & a flash can get you to @230hp.
Then later add the turbo. Reliable 400hp is quite common.
I already parted out the Miata. It needed more than more power (brakes, hubs, bushings/fasteners, paint, real safety). The point of this thread is to not have another major project; I have too many of those already.
My opinion is that no turbo cars are track reliable at high ambient temps, at least without factory racing budgets. That was criteria #2.
An n/a K24 or J32 Miata with a rollbar and track-sorted would be perfect. Haven't found one for sale yet.
The Rx8 market seems pretty ratty, with almost none track-prepped. They can be had cheap with questionable history.
There are some nicely prepared C5 Z06 in the low/mid 20k range. A similar base C5 or C6 would be great.
The conclusion I've come to is that there are no mostly-depreciated 250-300+hp sports cars or sports sedans produced in the 2000-early 201X range that can reliably be tracked at high temperatures without signficant preparation. E36 M3 excepted.
In reply to MattGent :
E36 M3 is only 240 hp :)
LifeIsStout said:I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but I quick look on a few car sale sites show that you can find a 2013+ Golf R for just under 20K. That nets you AWD, turbo (easily upgradable and lots of availabilty of parts), bigger brakes than a GTI and a Stick. Add in the hatch, you could haul race rubber with you as well.
How do the consumables like wheel bearings hold up? (Once per year or once per weekend?) Transmission cooling issues?
In reply to adam525i (Forum Supporter) :
Of course. Gut the interior and call it even.
One more thought -A normally aspirated Exocet will run with a turbo Miata (Blackhawk Farms, Laguna Seca) and has the advantage of being simpler, and the cost of consumables is about as low as you can go. My RE71s went three seasons and ended up on the Miata since they weren't spent, and the brakes went three seasons too. This wasn't based on a huge amount of track time, but my '07 MX5 would go through a set of tires and a at least set of brakes every season.
edit: just read the "no major projects" line...
ProDarwin said:bmw88rider (Supportive Dude) said:In reply to ProDarwin :
Is the cooling issues just engine cooling or wasn't there a brake cooling issue as well? I keep looking at the 370Z and remember something about brakes from the early ones.
I thought the brake issue on the 370 was just the factory pads which have a dramatic fall off when they overheat? Not sure. But again, even if a brake kit of some sort is required, I'm betting that could be done in the budget and its not a major undertaking. I guess it depends how under-braked it is.
If its just a radiator, oil cooler, ducting, and a front brake kit, it still seems like it could be a lot of car for the $.
Pretty sure it was both the pads and the fluid that Nissan used. There was a C&D article which detailed the brake failure at VIR during Lightning Lap which caused the car to crash.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15129918/z-meets-wall-we-investigate-why-the-nismo-zs-brakes-failed-at-lightning-lap/
Seems like a set of pads, fluid and cooling ducts would be all that is needed.
What about a C5?
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
From what I have read, cooling seems to be up to the task and I've seen no mention of wheel bearings. Most people comment on getting better brake fluid and track pads (but upsizing the rotors isn't needed). If you are in the heat they do make some cooling ducts for the brakes I have seen. Only other bigger thing is camber, in stock form it will eat the outer edge of tires, but there are camber adjustment kits out there that seem to help. Oil catch can seems to be popular once you get some sticky tires and really throw it into the corners.
An instructor I know had a Golf R and had a bunch of suspension work done to it. It kept having oil blow by issues. He finally sold it and bought a Cayman GTS.
I have a GTI. After owning it and tracking it for couple years I'm not interested in a Golf R as a follow up. They are money pits for track use (engine tunes, exhaust, cooling, brakes, suspension, etc).
Personally I'm leaning towards a Cayman S or an M92 M3. They seem to be more suited for track use out of the box.
Maybe a 2zz/6-speed MR-S?...I know it's not factory but it's about as factory of a swap as you can get.
With a little searching you should be able to find an e46 m3 for that money, they go quick but they are out there. Find one with the rear subframe /vanos fixed and you are pretty good to go.
LarsBrunkhorst said:With a little searching you should be able to find an e46 m3 for that money, they go quick but they are out there. Find one with the rear subframe /vanos fixed and you are pretty good to go.
I love the E46 M3, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect to get a reliable, track-prepped one for $20K.
I was shopping E36 M3s within driving distance for about 6 months. Maybe seriously for 3.
The few that popped up were mostly too-developed (like S54 motors, big brake packages) so too expensive. I checked one out with an LS1/T56 and a cage that is crazy cheap, but had some issues. For some reason they are all coming out of the woodwork now.
I bought one, from Miami. Breaking one of my cardinal rules: no cars from Miami, and no boats from the Keys. It has a track history, a title, AC, and most/all of the required E36 upgrades (bushings/arms/reinforcements/radiator). Stripped interior and a crappy re-spray put it well within my budget.
It promptly over-heated on the way to the DMV the next day:
Over-heat is a radiator issue that is being fixed, and it survived PBIR track night today in the low/mid-80s. 5sec/lap faster than my NB with probably a couple seconds more in driving & setup.
Thanks for your feedback.
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