motorcyclists be careful out there

In reply to ddavidv :

No one made that claim. Not even close.

Actual footage of this thread trying not to get locked:  

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

It seems like 90% of the threads I comment on get locked anyway. Why not keep the streak up.

I've owned 4 bikes over the past 25 years.  It wasn't until the last one that I went from "those who will go down" to "those who have been down" and I got off lucky.  It was a morning commute, less than 5 miles, single vehicle accident and entirely my fault.  I slid and tumbled nearly 150' on asphalt wearing a helmet (yay) and work clothes (boo).  That was 7 years ago and while having a bike right after my divorce was probably a good thing for my mental health I feel lucky to have gotten off as lightly as I did so I'm personally done with bikes.  My Miata scratches the open air itch well enough now.

Not telling anyone else what to do, just my data point. 

*** Something to remember, those who say they don't fear death: fine.  The scary thing to me about bikes are the non-death but life altering injuries.  I don't want to spend my remaining years in a chair or brain damaged (worse than I clearly am).

Nick Comstock said:

In reply to SaltyDog :

Deer strike a possibility? 

Certainly possible, we grow 'em big around here and it wouldn't be the first.

However, there was no mention of hitting one, but she could have been avoiding one. It would be a bit odd, given the time of day but still possible.

In a follow up, it mentioned she had gone back to school and was close to becoming a nurse. Very sad.

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

I've owned 4 bikes over the past 25 years.  It wasn't until the last one that I went from "those who will go down" to "those who have been down" and I got off lucky.  It was a morning commute, less than 5 miles, single vehicle accident and entirely my fault.  I slid and tumbled nearly 150' on asphalt wearing a helmet (yay) and work clothes (boo).  That was 7 years ago and while having a bike right after my divorce was probably a good thing for my mental health I feel lucky to have gotten off as lightly as I did so I'm personally done with bikes.  My Miata scratches the open air itch well enough now.

Not telling anyone else what to do, just my data point. 

*** Something to remember, those who say they don't fear death: fine.  The scary thing to me about bikes are the non-death but life altering injuries.  I don't want to spend my remaining years in a chair or brain damaged (worse than I clearly am).

Yep. I miss having a sportbike. Watching one of my friends literally be killed in front of me, then wrecking at the track and damaging the bike pretty good and myself (post-concussion syndrome is not something to scoff at).........by the time I got the bike back together. I decided I'd just start playing with cars. So it after owning it 2.5 years and putting around 38k miles on it from new, I sold it to one of the guy's girlfriends that all used to ride together.

I sold my moto (adv bike) last summer.  My wife went back to work full time and I was on kid pick up duty much, much more.  Since my only free time to ride was to work and back and I had to pick up my son, that meant I basically had no free time to ride.

The bike was fairly new and for whatever reason was rapidly depreciating.  I made the decision to sell then vs wait and see how my time shook out.  I'm glad I did, as I still have no free time to ride and the bike would be worth $3-4k less now than last summer.

I miss riding and see myself getting another moto at some point but not until I have more free time to ride.  I want to ride down through Mexico.

Nick Comstock said:

In reply to SaltyDog :

I read this thread just before suiting up for the ride home. Turned the bike on and the trip odometer was sitting at 66.6. I'm normally not a very superstitious person but I have to admit I was extra aware of my surroundings on the way home. 

Not superstition per se, but there have been times I've suited up, started the bike to get it warm, climbed on and then just switched it off and walked away.  I have to be in a pretty good mindset to ride.  I love the focus and concentration needed to ride a bike well and safely - but sometimes it just doesn't feel right and when it doesn't, I trust my instincts.

docwyte said:

I sold my moto (adv bike) last summer.  My wife went back to work full time and I was on kid pick up duty much, much more.  Since my only free time to ride was to work and back and I had to pick up my son, that meant I basically had no free time to ride.

The bike was fairly new and for whatever reason was rapidly depreciating.  I made the decision to sell then vs wait and see how my time shook out.  I'm glad I did, as I still have no free time to ride and the bike would be worth $3-4k less now than last summer.

I miss riding and see myself getting another moto at some point but not until I have more free time to ride.  I want to ride down through Mexico.

When I first read moto in your first sentence, I immediately thought of a Supermoto. That could be fun to ride around town and commute to work on, but I think I don't I'd make it more than 3-4 months before having pulled over enough times they'd just take my license. 

In reply to pontiacstogo :

I've been there many times too. Just this morning in fact. Add in the fact that we're supposed to get severe weather today and it wasn't worth it.

CJ said:

In reply to Rodan :

I had a guy lane split on SR17 - the windiest, busiest, POS road in the state (runs from San Jose to Santa Cruz).  Passed between cars in curves at 45-50 MPH.  How he didnt get killed, I don't know. 

Not sure anyone is going to convert me to thinking lane splitting is a great idea.

Hi CJ! I've commuted over SR17 from San Jose to Scotts Valley for the last 15 years. That ended a month ago when my company closed the SV office. For me, 17 is Mark International Raceway on bikes and in cars but I don't make splitting at 45 MPH in the curves so it probably wasn't me. Probably.

As far as converting you to the wisdom of splitting, it doesn't matter. You don't ride so those of us that do ride don't care. As far as it being safer, more than one motorcycle traffic study has found it to be much safer than sitting in traffic and my own experience backs that up. I personally know three people that were killed sitting in traffic when they were hit by dipE36 M3 inattentive drivers. I don't know anybody that's even had an accident while splitting. Granted this is entirely anecdotal but you're probably not going to convince anybody that rides seriously as to the dangers of splitting. If you don't ride, you don't understand.

On another subject, where do you live? It would be great to meet up with another GRM'er! I promise not to expound on motorcycle safety if you promise not to pontificate about motorcycle unsafety...

dculberson said:

@Nick: Motorcycles are 35 times more likely to have fatal accidents per mile ridden. Don't fool yourself into thinking the risks between driving a car or riding a bike are in the least bit comparable. It's like the difference between skydiving and flying in a commercial airliner. Not in any way the same. Ride all you want, but do it with your eyes open and without false justifications.

DC, you've about 4x off on that but 8 times is still a lot when you consider that margin with respect to cars. The 32x statistic is injury accidents. A few points about that statistic:

1. That includes the guys and gals that ride without helmets and protective gear.

2. That includes the guys and gals that ride after a few drinks.

3. That includes the guys and gals that ride without proper education.

4. That includes the guys and gals that ride poorly maintained rides.

I don't do any of those things: I wear ATGATT, I don't ever drink and ride, I take part in continuing education, and I maintain my bikes.

I ride about 30k miles/year and have roughly one close call each year. I understand that in any motorcycle accident, barring a meteor strike, even if the car is considered to be legally 100% at fault, I have some contribution to that accident due to inattentiveness, conditions or lack of talent. I ride like they're all out there to get me and I'm not surprised (much) when I find I'm right. I haven't done any pavement surfing in over 15 years and that one was sand in a curve on CA SR17.

Yes, motorcycling is dangerous. So are a lot of fun things. Like you, I stopped riding from the time my kids were about 5 until they graduated from high school, mostly because I needed to spend more time with them but also because of that pesky stat we referenced earlier. E36 M3, I have way more close calls on my road bicycle...

I'm a former rider.  Despite some of the "saltiness" of this thread, I found there was at least something I could agree with in almost every post.  Really, it seemed like that stupid proverb about the blind men and the elephant.  There are many aspects to riding, some good, some bad. 

Here's my take: Yes, it's fun.  No, a convertible is not the same.  It's close, but not the same.  The best I can say about the most fun car I've ever owned was it was almost as much fun as a bike.  Let's say 90%.  The only time my Miata has ever given the same rush as a bike was doing about 95mph, in the rain, heading into turn 11 at Gingerman.  That was arguably no safer than a motorcycle, maybe less so.  70mph on a bike "feels" faster than 100+ in a car, even a convertible.  In the end, for me, the extra "10%" just wasn't worth the expense and risk of a bike.  When I was single, it was.  Now, it isn't.  Every once in a while, I miss it.  Enough that I don't fault anyone who hasn't been able/willing to hang it up despite the "math" of the whole thing.  I'm glad I did it when I was young. 

Nick Comstock said:

I don't care about percentages. My statement is not inaccurate. I don't give a rats ass about statistics, per mile driven whatever. Being a road user, no matter the mode of transportation, is more likely to kill a person than anything else (not health related).

Not to be a dick about it, but in the USA "injury" (all causes ... not just car accidents) doesn't even make the top 10 leading causes of death. That's according to CDC and WHO data. As for statistics, you really do need to pay attention to it. Quick back-of-the-envelope calculation:

There are 225 million drivers in the usa. Average number of miles each person drives is between 13,000 and 14,000 per year. That's over 3 trillion miles driven each year in the USA.

We have 40,000 traffic fatalities per year. That means you'd have to drive (on average) 73 million miles if you want to make sure you die behind the wheel.

So, if you drove continuously at 65 MPH (24/7 without a break), you'd need to put in over 1.125 million hours (on average) to die. At that rate, driving non-stop for 12 hours a day every day for the rest of our life ... you'd need about 94,000 days (over 250 years!) to make sure you die behind the wheel.

When you look at it that way, driving really isn't all that dangerous.

In reply to pontiacstogo :

I’ve done the same when I don’t feel right. I’ve got to feel ready and up to the challenge. For me, riding motorcycles is the single best/most fun thing I’ve done in my life, and nothing else can compare or replace it. I got out of it late in my teenage years and came back to it in my 30’s and have no regrets.

My dad is still riding in his 70’s, and has only had one off on the street...low speed, no other vehicles, making a left at an intersection in the rain...he presumes a tough-to-see oil patch or metal utility cover. I take my approach to it from him, and view it as a big challenge, a lifelong learning process, and something you never take lightly. He always rides cautiously and defensively on the street. He always considers every variable he can manage to minimize risk, including mental state, motorcycle condition, weather conditions, route and time of day/night, riding gear, and constant study/learning. He doesn’t so much any more, but used to ride dirt and track to stay sharp for the street. He does continuing rider education. I can’t fault the results he has gotten and try to follow his example.

Part of what I enjoy is the massive challenge and the fact that I could always be better. For me it scratches the itch others take care of with martial arts, flying, track driving, yoga, or whatever...we keep practicing, keep focusing on our techniques, and still may never truly master it, but we will have a lot of fun and become better through trying. 

Ya gotta know yourself. Me? I'm only 50-sumthin. I do not have the maturity or discipline to ride a crotchrocket on the road and live. Especially a literbike crotchrocket. I can drive a 550 hp car on the street and not crash it and only get 1 ticket in 5 years, but a cbr1000rr? Fergit it. That throttletwist is too addictive.

This thread reminded me that I need to add the acid and charge my new battery so I can take Il Mostro out of mothballs and go for a ride.

Be safe out there, everyone.  ATGATT for me.

I've been considering getting a dual sport, so I felt the need to read this thread.

There is no way I'd ride a motorcycle in the city where I live. I've been clipped by a car (on foot, just a bruise) and had to dump a bicycle at an intersection due to some jackass on a car. Bruised nuts on the second one. Somebody was killed walking across the street near my house eariler this week, and if you look at almost any intersection, you'll see evidence of a car crash.

I'll take my chances with Rally Moto.

Unfortunately, just about everything is dangerous, and all the automated "safety" features on modern cars (blind spot detection, radar cruise, and automatic braking being the worst offenders) seem to have made the situation worse with people feeling like they don't actually need to pay attention now. I still ride on the street, but now it is mainly back roads or off road. I've had a few crashes on pavement, mainly from sudden flat front tires, and plenty off road. There is definitely a risk with riding; that's just how it is. But I don't think I could give it up.

@Brett_Murphy - rally moto stuff is actually why I haven't been on GRM much in the last year. From an event a last month:

I was interested in the new (pictured above) KTM 790R until I found out it weighs 470lbs.  How that's considered a "middle weight" bike is beyond me...

In reply to docwyte :

Compared to full-dresser touring and cruiser bikes?  

I don't think that model was meant for tight woods riding where weight is more of a concern. 

CJ said:

In reply to Rodan :

I had a guy lane split on SR17 - the windiest, busiest, POS road in the state (runs from San Jose to Santa Cruz).  Passed between cars in curves at 45-50 MPH.  How he didnt get killed, I don't know. 

Not sure anyone is going to convert me to thinking lane splitting is a great idea.

They dont see you sitting in traffic, I will always split lanes. 

I've ridden off and on since 1986.  While I dont currently own a bike, I will again.  I find it excessively hypocritical for members of a car racing forum to be critical or negative about motorcyling.  Sure, it's dangerous, so is HPDE, replacing a ceiling fan, or opening a freakin' pocket knife.  I would hope that on a forum for people that enjoy the thrill of going fast, the comments would be more understanding of someone elses choice of adrenaline releasing activity and just encourage maximum safety practices.  When I ride I wear an abrasion resistant jacket, gloves, jeans, boots, and full face helmet or I'm taking my Miata.  I would be filled with regrets if I lived my life passing on things that are considered by anyone dangerous

CJ said:

In reply to Rodan :

I had a guy lane split on SR17 - the windiest, busiest, POS road in the state (runs from San Jose to Santa Cruz).  Passed between cars in curves at 45-50 MPH.  How he didnt get killed, I don't know. 

Not sure anyone is going to convert me to thinking lane splitting is a great idea.

That doesn't sound like lane splitting. That;s just being reckless. I've had the crap scared out of me on I-95 when a group of riders will scream past, weaving in between cars that are already doing 70+ MPH.  No matter how loud their exhausts are, you don't hear them coming from behind you. And there seems to be this suicidal trend of mounting the dimmest replacement headlights possible on the bike. 

Proper lane splitting is when cars are stopped in traffic, not moving and the rider will slot between them at usually around 20 MPH max. When a car in front of them starts moving, they slot in behind them.  They are not supposed to ride between moving cars, although I gather it's often done.  I had never experienced lane splitting until I was sitting in freeway traffic in CA some 15 years ago. Scared the bejesus out of me.  When I mentioned it to a coworker, he responded, "oh yeah... that's legal here..."

In reply to Ian F :

What you are describing is called "filtering".Lane splitting can include filtering, but also includes passing between vehicles that are moving the same direction as the motorcycle.   The main purpose is to avoid rear end collisions, which can be deadly on a motorcycle.