And you thought that Sony just made TVs and VCRs and headphones and cameras and PlayStation and whatever else. (And this will also go into Super Stock, right?)
And you thought that Sony just made TVs and VCRs and headphones and cameras and PlayStation and whatever else. (And this will also go into Super Stock, right?)
I'm all for it. Competition in EVs will result in major advances, much like the horsepower races that have propelled the ICE to the levels of efficiency it currently enjoys.
Speaking of EVs, just found out that I'm going on a bit of a road trip in one.
I'm most disappointed in just how car-like it looks. To me, electric cars are not cross-country vehicles. They are more than urban transportation, but not the asphalt eaters that ICE cars are. It seems to me that the SmartCar and minivan niche are the most realistic platform for electric vehicles...small commuter cars or big people movers. I just don't see someone using electric cars to move lots of cargo.
Where I live electric cars aren't feasible for a daily driver, though hybrids do just fine. The distances are too far, the temps are too cold and the infrastructure just isn't there.
Long distances with no ability to charge without "bumming a smoke" is a no-go for me. Cold saps battery power and it's doubly worse when you're keeping the cabin warm vs. a rolling reefer unit. Charging a car overnight vs. 5 minute fill-up is untenable.
Look at the Tesla map for Wyoming. In my part of the state, it's Cody and Jackson Hole. And you cannot make it from Cody to Jackson Hole in the winter on one charge. Yellowstone's East Gate is closed, requiring you to drive through Meeteetse, Thermopolis, Shoshone, Riverton, Lander and finally J.H....you ain't gonna make it on one charge if the temp drops below 32*F, which is Oct-Mar.
This is Sony though, they'll release OTA updates to strip away features, then try to sue you when you try to get them back by yourself because you want the product you paid for, not what it evolved to.
In reply to Gingerbeardman :
You have to admit that Wyoming is kind of an extreme case though. The entire state's population is lower than the county I live in - one of 88 in Ohio! Outside of edge cases I think long range electrics do work for eating up miles as long as you can charge daily. And the situation is only getting better. I doubt it went this quickly for gas cars when they were new.
Oh brother, can I make an EV too?
dculberson said:In reply to Gingerbeardman :
You have to admit that Wyoming is kind of an extreme case though. The entire state's population is lower than the county I live in - one of 88 in Ohio! Outside of edge cases I think long range electrics do work for eating up miles as long as you can charge daily. And the situation is only getting better. I doubt it went this quickly for gas cars when they were new.
I absolutely agree. But ignoring those edge cases while pushing that tech on us country bumpkins ignores reality. Half of Americans live outside of major metro areas in the "flyover states".
I know we just barely made the leap from Pony Express to internet, but the same folks trying to sell me a bunch of E36 M3 I don't need, also have no problem using the sweet, sweet resources my state provides, including 50%+ of our electricity being shipped out of state.
We're basically District 12 out here...trona (soda ash), gypsum, uranium, coal, methane, oil, bentonite, bauxite, etc. We produce 1/3 of the nations coal which still provides electricity for these rolling juice-boxes. Not to mention 25% of the barley used to brew Coors, 20% of the nation's sugar beets, 15% of the nation's cattle, should I go on? Oh and those newest blights on our beautiful landscape...wind turbines to assuage the guilt of those bleating fascist "environmentalists" living elsewhere, so they can shift their tailpipe emissions downrange. Ever heard of line-losses?
We might be few, but we actually do exist, and until an electric vehicle can perform at the level of ICE vehicles HERE where we live, work and play, they are nothing more than toys for folks who can afford to play around with status symbols.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against toys, two-wheeled, four-wheeled, or more-wheeled, nor am I racist against motive power, be it actual horse power, steam, gas, diesel or electric, nor am I a Luddite worried about newfangled tech and our robot overlords. What I am against is dreamy navel gazing and hamfisted legislative attempts to force me into the brave new world.
No way in hell am I buying an $80k "car" that I can't drive almost half the year, still forced to rely on old "dirty" ICE to get me around during the winter, because Musk and Co. didn't think about hills, cold weather, long distances between towns and actually getting work done, rather than posing for Instagram likes.
dculberson said:In reply to Gingerbeardman :
You have to admit that Wyoming is kind of an extreme case though. The entire state's population is lower than the county I live in - one of 88 in Ohio! Outside of edge cases I think long range electrics do work for eating up miles as long as you can charge daily. And the situation is only getting better. I doubt it went this quickly for gas cars when they were new.
Can confirm 10 times out of 10 we will take the Tesla on a road trip. Not quite urban here on the PA/Ohio border and not quite country bumpkins as we are 45 minutes from the closest city. Autopilot and superchargers make it extremely easy to eat up miles on the highway. We also don't live in or travel through Wyoming. Hopefully with new superchargers coming online in 2020 it makes it easier for edge cases.
Biggest challenge with all these new EVs competing with Tesla is the charging network, most keep trying to piggy back on Electrify America.
Let's hope this is not the new Betamax for a new generation.
Recon1342 said:I'm all for it. Competition in EVs will result in major advances, much like the horsepower races that have propelled the ICE to the levels of efficiency it currently enjoys.
Right now Tesla has the lockup on it, so this will be interesting. Sony will either force them to compete, or the kind of product quality that had every Sony CD player I ever bought fail in six months will increase Tesla cachet further.
I saw too many Teslas to count while on the way home from work last night, and a Model S was behind me and another in front of me as I was exiting the Interstate to my dumpy little neighborhood. (Maybe it's not so dumpy) Meanwhile, the Ghosn thread made me pay attention: Saw zero Infinitis.
Gingerbeardman said:dculberson said:In reply to Gingerbeardman :
You have to admit that Wyoming is kind of an extreme case though. The entire state's population is lower than the county I live in - one of 88 in Ohio! Outside of edge cases I think long range electrics do work for eating up miles as long as you can charge daily. And the situation is only getting better. I doubt it went this quickly for gas cars when they were new.
I absolutely agree. But ignoring those edge cases while pushing that tech on us country bumpkins ignores reality. Half of Americans live outside of major metro areas in the "flyover states".
That also means that half of Americans live inside major metro areas, and that's too large a market to ignore.
Plus, without reading the newsblurbs, I doubt this is a US only thing. There are metro areas in Europe that have outright bans on internal combustion vehicles coming in a few years. It would be absolutely foolish to not jump on the EV train.
That said I do not believe the internal combustion engine is going to go away, not for a long time anyway, exactly because not everyone lives in an urban area and there are some tasks that IC does better.
Regards your other comments... last time I paid attention to my electric bill, most of the juice coming to my house is courtesy of splitting atoms. But that was before wind turbines started popping up all over the place. They're all along the lakeshore in Cleveland and you see whole farms of them here and there. Along with solar farms.
Future's happening sooner or later, I guess.
John Welsh said:Let's hope this is not the new Betamax for a new generation.
Superior product that lost out because Sony wanted to retain too many rights?
(Betamax was used up until very recently for high end video recording, think TV news and other highly moble applications. It only stopped when digital got better)
In reply to Gingerbeardman :
That was a while lot of jumping to conclusions dude. I live in Ohio don't you think most costal cities consider that a midwestern flyover State?
Im not aware of a single person "pushing" this tech on you any more than any other product gets pushed since they're trying to, you know, sell things. Maybe try to unwrap your feelings of being thought a bumpkin from the discussion of a car.
In reply to Knurled. :
Betamax and Betacam were different formats that recorded onto similar tapes. Just to pick broadcast quality video nits. ;)
In reply to Gingerbeardman :
How is offering a new option in a free market even close to forcing you "into the brave new world"?
Nobody is forcing anybody to buy a new vehicle at all, and if you choose to do that, nobody is forcing you to buy an electric one, especially if it's not viable for you.
I don't get why EVs are always so polarizing for people. Not all those who like EVs are liberal elites soy boys that live on the coasts, and not all EV detractors are coal rolling rubes from the middle of nowhere. They're a relatively new technology, and like any technology there are benefits and drawbacks. All any of us can do is inform ourselves about the benefits and drawbacks, assess how well they might work for our specific situation, and make purchasing decisions accordingly.
If you have to tow a ton of weight all the time, an EV isn't currently the best option. If you drive hundreds of miles per day, an EV isn't currently the best option. If you can't charge at home, an EV isn't currently the best option. The reality is that most people don't tow tons of weight all the time. Most people drive under 50 miles per day. Most people have access to charging where they live, or at least could have it installed without much effort. The current crop of EVs is enough for most people. With more time and money the products will continue to improve and the number of cases where they're not viable will shrink. They may never be the right tool for every job, but that doesn't make them bad or threatening. More choice only benefits consumers.
STM317 said:In reply to Gingerbeardman :
I don't get why EVs are always so polarizing for people. Not all those who like EVs are liberal elites soy boys that live on the coasts, and not all EV detractors are coal rolling rubes from the middle of nowhere. They're a relatively new technology, and like any technology there are benefits and drawbacks. All any of us can do is inform ourselves about the benefits and drawbacks, assess how well they might work for our specific situation, and make purchasing decisions accordingly.
This. I traded a 620rwhp supercharged C7 Corvette for my Model 3 Performance. I have heard so much about how dumb I am, how I'm not saving the environment, how electricity comes from coal, how starving babies mine lithium etc. They missed the point that I don't care. I bought the car for performance and technology reasons.
Gingerbeardman said: Half of Americans live outside of major metro areas in the "flyover states".
According to the last census it's more like 82% of the population live in a "metro area."
Gingerbeardman said:Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against toys, two-wheeled, four-wheeled, or more-wheeled, nor am I racist against motive power, be it actual horse power, steam, gas, diesel or electric, nor am I a Luddite worried about newfangled tech and our robot overlords. What I am against is dreamy navel gazing and hamfisted legislative attempts to force me into the brave new world.
No way in hell am I buying an $80k "car" that I can't drive almost half the year, still forced to rely on old "dirty" ICE to get me around during the winter, because Musk and Co. didn't think about hills, cold weather, long distances between towns and actually getting work done, rather than posing for Instagram likes.
You say you're not a luddite, but...
dculberson said:Im not aware of a single person "pushing" this tech on you any more than any other product gets pushed since they're trying to, you know, sell things. Maybe try to unwrap your feelings of being thought a bumpkin from the discussion of a car.
I'm going to try not to patio this thread by treading lightly, but you can't say nobody is "pushing" EVs when they've enjoyed significant government incentives for quite some time. I don't think you'd see nearly as many of them around if the free market was determining demand on it's own. I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, but it is a fact.
Having said that, you can obviously still buy ICE cars, keep what you have, etc.
My last Sony product was one of these:
They were pretty awesome back in the 90's, here's hoping Sony can find their way back to relevence.
Tom_Spangler said:I'm going to try not to patio this thread by treading lightly, but you can't say nobody is "pushing" EVs when they've enjoyed significant government incentives for quite some time. I don't think you'd see nearly as many of them around if the free market was determining demand on it's own. I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, but it is a fact.
Having said that, you can obviously still buy ICE cars, keep what you have, etc.
If we're going to be true to free market forces then it's only fair to bring the significant investments we've made in the middle east from a military perspective and the impact that has on large oil company shareholders (and ultimately us as consumers in terms of gas prices). Along with highways paid for by the government, and farm subsidies for ethenol, etc.
I agree with the point you're making, but the incentive being "pushed" for EV is no different than the other incentives I've mentioned above, which all impact transportation in on way or another.
Any of my "normal" trips (from Chicagoland) which include trips to St. Louis, the UP, Louisville, Rural Kentucky and Indiana, Ames, IA, and Ely, MN... Well, most if not all of that is through Flyover country. The biggest city I pass through on any of these trips is either Indianapolis or Milwaukee. Not exactly booming metropolis's (metropolis'? Metropoli?)
Looking at the Tesla supercharger network, at most they'd take me 15 minutes longer than an ICE vehicle right now. If we include my family who drives from Evansville, IN to Chicago to pick me, then to Ely, MN, it adds about 1 hour to a 14 hour car ride.... and part of that is because we wouldn't be able to charge at the destination. I really think we can move beyond the "it won't work for too many people" schpeel, even those in flyover country... unless they're such exceptionally poor planners that they can't even get gas when their tank is on E?
z31maniac said:According to the last census it's more like 82% of the population live in a "metro area."
Please don't litter this thread with facts. Thank you.
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