MR-S Blown Engine Value?

Hey guys,

I have been hunting for a winter project for several weeks and stumbled across an MR-S with a soon-to-be blown 1zz. It still runs, but the pre-cats wreaked havoc on the internals and it smokes like a chimney. Otherwise the car is in great shape, around 130K miles and appears well maintained. Any idea what one of these is worth? Local examples in nice shape seem to go from 5K-6K.

Also, 2ZZ, 1ZZ or K Swap?

-John

Put a 2GR-FE in that bad boy and have an everyman's Evora.

I would think $2-3k would be on the money. And 2ZZ is the easiest solution.

I would say 1500 is a good starting place. Also, make sure it has the regular manual. The semi auto/clutchless manual is junk.

What are the catalysts being blamed for doing?

(BTW, they are not pre-cats- but the primary catalysts)

Depending- that could be fixable.

2gr is definitely an option, although it might be a bit more if a project than I want. I know, I'm being picky. Definitely leaning towards the 2zz, will be much easier to get through emissions.

It is a true manual, drove it this morning. I think 2-3 k seems fair, that's is what I had in mind as well.

-John

In reply to alfadriver:

The 1ZZ engine in the MR2 Spyder has a pair of pre-cats that precede the main cat. This specific version of the engine is known for those pre-cats disintegrating and getting sucked into the engine. See here: http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=11393

In reply to pointofdeparture:

I guarantee you those are not pre-cats. Those are the main cats.

Why Toyota chose that format is a mystery- but "pre-cats" have not been on cars for 20 years or more. The first ones are the main ones. They do 95% of the work.

Seems like the whole "pre-cat" name stuck since no engineer bothered to correct the tech bulletin writers.

I argue this same thing with Miata people.

In reply to alfadriver:

Nomenclature aside (you would know far better than I as this is your line of work), this problem is also a big deal on the Nissan QR25 engine and the early Mazda 6 with the Duratec V6 (due to their unique catalyst design). Something about those main cats just loves to explode and get sucked back into the engine because of the exhaust scavenging effect.

On the Toyota and Nissan apparently you can lose those main cats without a CEL, whereas the Mazda knows they are gone. The Internet community suggests the secondary cat (what they call the main cat) is enough to pass emissions, but I have no direct experience with that. I do know the hardcore performance builds ditch the whole damn thing and run a tubular header with a big-ass race cat to keep the ECU happy.

K swap! 2zz is easy, but still a really high strung motor that doesn't make that much power.

The K swap is getting common enough people make all the required pars, axles motor mounts etc. Not cheap but way more power potential in the end IMO.

I have a wrecked MR-s Im working on, and would LOVE a K swap eventually. I think 1500-2k is about all I would pay. It does run and drive still.

java230 wrote: K swap! 2zz is easy, but still a really high strung motor that doesn't make that much power. The K swap is getting common enough people make all the required pars, axles motor mounts etc. Not cheap but way more power potential in the end IMO. I have a wrecked MR-s Im working on, and would LOVE a K swap eventually. I think 1500-2k is about all I would pay. It does run and drive still.

Thanks for the input! It does run, and would likely make the 20 minute drive to my garage without issue. I might make him an offer this weekend. A bit more research to do.

-John

johnp2 wrote:

java230 wrote: K swap! 2zz is easy, but still a really high strung motor that doesn't make that much power. The K swap is getting common enough people make all the required pars, axles motor mounts etc. Not cheap but way more power potential in the end IMO. I have a wrecked MR-s Im working on, and would LOVE a K swap eventually. I think 1500-2k is about all I would pay. It does run and drive still.

Thanks for the input! It does run, and would likely make the 20 minute drive to my garage without issue. I might make him an offer this weekend. A bit more research to do. -John

Take a peek on spyderchat. There is a LONG K swap thread.

Also quite a few cars are sold there to get an idea on value.

pointofdeparture wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Nomenclature aside (you would know far better than I as this is your line of work), this problem is also a big deal on the Nissan QR25 engine and the early Mazda 6 with the Duratec V6 (due to their unique catalyst design). Something about those main cats just loves to explode and get sucked back into the engine because of the exhaust scavenging effect. On the Toyota and Nissan apparently you can lose those main cats without a CEL, whereas the Mazda knows they are gone. The Internet community suggests the secondary cat (what they call the main cat) is enough to pass emissions, but I have no direct experience with that. I do know the hardcore performance builds ditch the whole damn thing and run a tubular header with a big-ass race cat to keep the ECU happy.

Which says it's not fixable.

It's really odd that a brick would fail like that- it's a pretty abnormal failure- as it's mechanical as opposed to thermal or poison.

I assume that the worst damage is in the cylinder walls? Blows.

In reply to alfadriver:

Its a very common issue with the MR-S. IIRC the thinking was they were just too small and broke up far easier than a larger cat. The one I have the motor was replaced by toyota because of cat failure.

In reply to alfadriver:

I was once told that on the Mazdas with the same problem, the root issue was that the engines would run slightly lean under WOT and get the cats ultra-hot to the point of disintegration. Couldn't tell ya if that's true in the first place or if that's what happens on the other cars, but it sounds plausible enough to me.

Interesting.

Usually, mechanical failures like that are caused by the mat holds the ceramic brick in place fails, and lets the brick vibrate against the wall. High temp failure should melt things before they break up, normally.

It could be the high temp that causes the mat to fail, but that also means there's some poor CFD that has a high and hot flow pointing at the walls.

And yes, small/short cats can be more sensitive to getting sideways in the can.

So that damage is bad enough that a rebuild isn't possible?

Depending on what you want to do with the car you don't need to swap the motor. Any 1zz block will fit in, out of a Corolla/Prism or Vibe/Matrix. There are just a couple of holes that need to be tapped in the non-mid engine blocks if memory serves me.

What year is the car in question? I seem to remember the later MR-S's did change something that complicated the swap a little bit, not much, but a bit. Maybe is was the axle carrier bearing....not sure.

Have I got a deal for you. I'm getting ready to swap in a boosted 2zz in place of my awesome 1zz turbo setup. It makes 214/168 @wheels and has a nice tune, that runs great, and has been Super reliable for a long long time. I'm selling the whole package, tuned emanage, engine, all of it. (I'm keeping my c60 6speed though). For the right money I'll even throw in the monkeywrench racing flywheel, and act hd/ss combo (that has like 13k miles on it).

I suppose a 1ZZ is not a bad option either. I am looking to spend a little time in the garage, and hope to do some exhaust work to test my fabrication skills.

We drove it locally in the test drive and I did like the feel of the car, nice and tight. Huge change getting out of the 626 and jumping into this.

Sesto: If I do pick the car up, we might have to chat!

-John

The cool thing about this setup is, drop it in in an afternoon and it's a done deal, you have a monster car that's reliable and gets 28mpg avg without engineering a thing. Even the turbo-back exhaust is one piece.

If you dont take the mr-s, let me know, ill probly grab it.

In reply to sesto elemento:

I might be interested in your engine. I thought you had a build thread but can't find it now. PM me some info.

In reply to johnp2:

I bought one with a blown motor for 1500 1.5 years ago. Another was on ebay for similar money recently. 3K is too much

When I read "soon-to-be-blown 1ZZ," I thought you were talking about a boosted 1ZZ project.

Sounds like fun, in any case!

eebasist wrote: In reply to johnp2: I bought one with a blown motor for 1500 1.5 years ago. Another was on ebay for similar money recently. 3K is too much

Very helpful information. Thank you sir.