Musings on light truck tires, or the performance costs of vanity

I recently made a thread HERE asking for tire advice for my F-150.  I bought the truck with some oversized Hankook All-Terrain tires that the previous owner had installed, and they were at the end of their life.  Based on feedback in that thread I decided to replace them with Michelin Defender LTX's in the OE size (265/60-18). 

I've had them on for two weeks and I've fallen in love with the truck all over again.  The experience got me thinking about our obsession with upgrading sports cars to squeeze the last drop of performance out of them. Trucks aren't sports cars, but returning to OE tire size was a simple "performance enhancement" that imparted the following benefits to my daily driver:

- better acceleration

- better steering feel

- lower center of mass and better stability in turns

- less unsprung weight, much better ride quality

- better braking performance

- better aerodynamics

- quieter on the highway

- better gas mileage

- better turning radius in parking lots

- accurate speedometer reading

In any other context, one would expect to spend thousands of dollars or hundreds of hours to get such benefits.  Yet they were essentially free to me, because I needed tires anyway.

On the other side of the coin, here are the benefits to oversized all-terrain tires:

- look cool

- better traction in serious offroad conditions that most trucks will never actually see

... and yet I bet 50% of the non-commercial trucks I see driving around metro Atlanta have oversized offroad tires.  I'm not judging anyone for customizing their vehicle to their heart's desires, but this is an area where the performance vs. vanity equation seems way out of wack.  Yes, my truck looks a little dorkier now but I've always been a function over form guy.

My Excursion came with some off road tires on it that I think were the OE size, but I just absolutely hated them.  I wasn't all that mad when I had one spontaneously deflate on the highway since it was an opportunity to replace them with a highway rib.  The ride is smoother, it's much quieter, and I got a tiny bit of a fuel economy boost - maybe .5 or so.  The strangest thing is that when I put it in 4-Lo, it still has the ability to get up the drive at the workshop when there's snow on the ground.  Even without the manly knobby noisy tires.

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

My boss dailies (or used to daily) a Wrangler Unlimited in typically modified mall crawler trim.  He bought it new so I had opportunity to ride in it both before and after the "upgrades".

It was comprehensively worse by any standard after the modifications.  I know for a fact it never did more offroad than drive on the beach, at which it would have been perfectly fine in stock configuration.

He drives a lot of highway miles and the rough-boy tires he put on it were so loud that I can't imagine putting up with it on a day-to-day basis.

Based on driving in the rain and up a muddy fire road, the new Michelins all-seasons have WAY more grip than the old Hankook A/T's.  Probably says more about the age of the tires than the design, but it was pretty striking.

I was in a pinch with my Subaru Outback; I needed tires that day (people in town for a funeral) and the only thing the tire store had was an optional larger size. Those tires were noisier, resulted in 2 mpg less and made the acceleration feel a bit sluggish. I was glad when they wore out.

Similar thing with my son's Miata; while the wide 15" offered more performance, the 14" made the car much more fun to drive. The car was never tracked nor autocrossed.

While I get doing things because they look cool but I lean towards function...................with that said I just bought a retro BMX bike cuz it looks cool.

I somewhat regret the off-road biased tires on my truck. They are the stock size, but do have more road noise and did cost me some gas mileage. On the plus side they look cool, are great in the mud when the rare time occurs, and are good in the snow too.

Changing my classic Mini from the stock 12" wheels and tires to the 10" the car was originally designed for made a huge difference.

My truck will need new shoes in the future - all that heavy towing does eat through Michelins. I'm tempted to go a little taller for the highway gearing but no matter what, they'll be LTXs. Offroad tires on a road vehicle are a good way to burn money whilst also making it a worse vehicle.

Won't lie, the oversized tires on my truck need to go. But they are damn near new, and paid for....

Almost every half ton pickup truck in the world would work better in almost every instance with a set of 235/75R15's, unless they won't fit over the brakes.  Then, the 245/70R16 is allowed.

I'm trying to figure out how I can keep the 16" GTA wheels on my 67 Camaro, because "pretty", but Holy Hell, would that car ever drive better on a set of FR70x14's.

Streetwiseguy said:

Almost every half ton pickup truck in the world would work better in almost every instance with a set of 235/75R15's, unless they won't fit over the brakes.  Then, the 245/70R16 is allowed.

Or unless they limit the payload of the truck due to insufficient weight rating.  That's no small part of why the overall tire size on trucks has gone up.  Wheel size started going up to fit bigger brakes for the heavier trucks, but then went up more just for looks.  Particularly in trucks, I'd say 17s are the new 15s.  And I think some of the 3/4 ton and up trucks now need 18s to clear the brakes. 

I see a LOT of really clean looking pickup trucks in Houston with the full off road treatment of mud tires and raised suspension.  They are noisy and awkward.  And usually driven 10 mph faster than traffic so the drivers tailgate everyone with their intimidation factor.   

Having grown up driving on muddy hunting lease roads in South Louisiana, and knowing  just how dirty a truck can get, I don't see all that extra kit on a purely street driven perfectly clean road warrior truck, that never sees mud,  as "cool".  Looks dumb to me.    

The AT or worse, MT trend is out of control for trucks and SUVs now. I see sooooo many trucks with super. It's really all about the looks, performance be damned. I do think they look good, except... 

...I'm seeing low profile AT/MT tires! What the hell is that about?

Streetwiseguy said:

Almost every half ton pickup truck in the world would work better in almost every instance with a set of 235/75R15's, unless they won't fit over the brakes.  Then, the 245/70R16 is allowed.

I'm trying to figure out how I can keep the 16" GTA wheels on my 67 Camaro, because "pretty", but Holy Hell, would that car ever drive better on a set of FR70x14's.

I'd like to point out that my 1966 Land Rover came with 16" wheels, and it sure wasn't for styling OR brake clearance :)

I just use the tires I need for the conditions.

So ridiculously knobby studded muds for winter and highway rib for summer

I tend to agree that putting oversize or even those 18-20" tires on modern trucks is silly to me.

But I do have to say that on the low end, namely 17" size tires can make sense since on my F150 the front & rear brakes are 13 & 12+ inches in diameter and you need 17" wheels to fit them.

Keith Tanner said:

Changing my classic Mini from the stock 12" wheels and tires to the 10" the car was originally designed for made a huge difference.

My truck will need new shoes in the future - all that heavy towing does eat through Michelins. I'm tempted to go a little taller for the highway gearing but no matter what, they'll be LTXs. Offroad tires on a road vehicle are a good way to burn money whilst also making it a worse vehicle.

My truck has a 3.15 rear axle with the 6 speed auto.  The 275/65-18 all-terrain tires I bought it with were 5.1% larger rolling diameter than the stock 265/60-18 size.  Towing the race trailer, I never hit 6th gear and only was in 5th on downhill or flat road.  This was one of the main reasons I went back to stock sized tires, I hated hearing the motor grinding away at 4k RPM in 4th gear going up every slight grade.

Keith Tanner said:

I'd like to point out that my 1966 Land Rover came with 16" wheels, and it sure wasn't for styling OR brake clearance :)

Are you suggesting the marginal drum brakes on your Land Rover are marginal?

I run the Michelin LTX on my 06 Tundra.  The guys at Discount Tire always try to encourage me to put on something with a more aggressive look for less money.  Nope -- Most of my driving is on-road and I drive briskly.  I want a tire that is smooth, quiet, with good grip on paved surfaces.  

LTXs used to age-out before they wore out.  I think they revised the compound when they went to the LTX Defender vs the old M/S.  They still wear a long time, but they run out of tread around the same time as they get too hard now.  I get maybe 40k miles on a set, and I'm on my 4th set.

Tom1200 said:

Keith Tanner said:

I'd like to point out that my 1966 Land Rover came with 16" wheels, and it sure wasn't for styling OR brake clearance :)

Are you suggesting the marginal drum brakes on your Land Rover are marginal?

Calling them marginal would be an insult to marginal brakes.

However, the lack of attainable velocity balances them out nicely.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I was going to say sucky brakes suck but I know you really like the Land Rover and was attempting to be kind.

rslifkin said:

Streetwiseguy said:

Almost every half ton pickup truck in the world would work better in almost every instance with a set of 235/75R15's, unless they won't fit over the brakes.  Then, the 245/70R16 is allowed.

Or unless they limit the payload of the truck due to insufficient weight rating.  That's no small part of why the overall tire size on trucks has gone up.  Wheel size started going up to fit bigger brakes for the heavier trucks, but then went up more just for looks.  Particularly in trucks, I'd say 17s are the new 15s.  And I think some of the 3/4 ton and up trucks now need 18s to clear the brakes. 

I stand by my statement.  There is a very small percentage of trucks used for heavy work, but absolutely none of them require 40 series 22s to haul stuff.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I was going to say sucky brakes suck but I know you really like the Land Rover and was attempting to be kind.

I am well aware of its limitations, especially in the acceleration and braking and safety departments :) It's basically a road-going tractor. But it's so cute!

Meanwhile there are some of us who are off road multiple times a week.  I typically go one size over OEM with truck tires, so 285x75R16 on my 2002 F150.  I switched from MT's to a pretty mild AT for this set of tires because I wanted a quieter ride on the highway.  I have to use 4WD way more often now.  The quieter ride is nice, but I'll look for a more in between option for the next set.

That said, I'm no fan of lifted trucks.  I just don't see any advantage whatsoever for my purposes.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'm a fan of them as well............it's an off-road Model A, you can't help but like them.

Sorry rule of cool wins when you are driving on the street, if you want 35's and can handle the noise more power to you as long as it is safe. I even went as big as trying a set of 37's on mine just for the fun factor, though I do have the gearing to support it. 33x12.5 are worse in every way then the 30x10/5 or so I should be running with a rational transaxle ratio even in the dirt but don't look right.