While I was sitting at a stop sign, a Cadillac Escalade brushed across the nose of my '71 Ford Country Sedan in a successful attempt to avoid a head-on collision with a 2001 Buick Regal (supercharged), driven by an 88 year old woman, who attempted to make a left turn (around me) into her path.
The damage to my car was very minor (a 100% repair would require repair/replacement of the right fender and the hood, and the replacement of the bumper, the hood and fender stainless mouldings, and rhe right side of the grille, plus paint), but will probably be a few grand to repair, with the way costs are these days. Both the girl who hit me and I have Allstate. The lady who caused the accident has State Farm. I'm not sure that she hit/got hit by anyone.
Allstate has requested photos detailing the damage, and from all four corners of the car, which I have submitted through their app.
My question is this; How do I avoid getting screwed by Allstate? I had an incident 30 years ago in which the guy who hit me and I both had Allstate, and the Blair County Court judge overturned the citation the Altoona officer erroneously gave me (and yelled at the guy for a good 10 minutes), but Allstate insisted that the collision was my fault, and didn't pay me E36 M3. I have a feeling that they may try to somehow pin this accident on the guy sitting still at the stop sign, low-ball the repair estimate, or total my car for next to nothing.
Any advice?
The low-ball is inevitable. Honestly, it seems like circumstances are in your favor as far as fault goes but I had that going for me in all three accidents I wrote about extensively on here. The tire deciding factor was my wife is such a tenacious... Well, I’ll leave it at tenacious. She argued passionately for me even though her name wasn’t legally attached to any of the property damage. She literally got me thousands more than was offered. (They offered $12,000 to fix my house but ended up paying $53,000!)
Take the car to a good bodyshop that does insurance work and let them deal with it.
My concern would be how much the car is worth and the cost of repairs. If it’s a total they will only pay you the value of the car.
The whole insurance thing is more optimized for new cars.
In reply to aircooled :
I used to work with someone who had an immaculate '69 Chevelle. Bright yellow, beautiful chrome on the bumpers, etc. I think he paid $12k for it and he got a good deal.
He was rearended at a light. The insurance company said, that's a thirty year old car, it is worth $700, take it or leave it.
I had a horrible experience in an accident where both cars were the same company. It was painful. Prepare for war!!!
Stuff like this is why I carry stated value coverage on my car. Insurance makes me nervous. In 06 all state totaled my friends 79 camaro and offered him 1200 dollars. Even after submitting receipts for all the work done too the car.
dropstep said:
Stuff like this is why I carry stated value coverage on my car. Insurance makes me nervous. In 06 all state totaled my friends 79 camaro and offered him 1200 dollars. Even after submitting receipts for all the work done too the car.
I've actually been shopping a new insurance company, and all the estimates I get include stated value on the older stuff. I just haven't gotten off my ass yet.
Your signature days "Zephyr project," but I see no pictures in your garage. Message me about Fairmont/Zephyr handling.
I hope they check Hagerty and NADA, and at least try to be fair with the value of the thing.
I had to lawyer up when the elky was t boned. Otherwise i would have been stuck at 6k for a frame off pro touring build.....
FWIW, I've had extremely good luck with Allstate. They've been reasonable, even generous.
Don’t assume you are going to get screwed. Insurance company’s will low ball. It is there job but be nice and get going through the process. Get comps on you car. Look for others for sale nation wide in comparable condition. Also factor in shipping costs if you find comps a long way away. Share all this with them. You also have to understand that they deal with people that think there 1990 Corolla is somehow worth 10k. Another thing people need to realize is they are insuring a stock car. If you customize a car you need to get it inspected and evaluated and that is then submitted to your insurance and then be prepared for a rate increase.
The short of all this is that for the most part the system works. There will always be those special cases but generally I see those are people that are underinsured. Not a case of them getting screwed.
If your car was indeed special and worth something more than the typical car of that YM&M you should have addressed that with your coverage. That is not the insurance company’s fault.
I see this allot. I feel bad for people but if you want the coverage you have to get it and pay accordingly.
dean1484 said:
Don’t assume you are going to get screwed. Insurance company’s will low ball. It is there job but be nice and get going through the process. Get comps on you car. Look for others for sale nation wide in comparable condition. Also factor in shipping costs if you find comps a long way away. Share all this with them. You also have to understand that they deal with people that think there 1990 Corolla is somehow worth 10k. Another thing people need to realize is they are insuring a stock car. If you customize a car you need to get it inspected and evaluated and that is then submitted to your insurance and then be prepared for a rate increase.
The short of all this is that for the most part the system works. There will always be those special cases but generally I see those are people that are underinsured. Not a case of them getting screwed.
If your car was indeed special and worth something more than the typical car of that YM&M you should have addressed that with your coverage. That is not the insurance company’s fault.
I see this allot. I feel bad for people but if you want the coverage you have to get it and pay accordingly.
This is very near what I was coming in to say, except the first part... Do assume you are about to get screwed, but prepare accordingly!
I have stated value policies on anything "odd" and try to have appraisals done so I don't need to scramble in the moment to prove my case. Finding comps can be tedious, but in my experience goes a long way if they are truly comparable to your own vehicle. I had an adjuster toss out half my comps on a '93 Ranger because they were '94s. Many times it will come down to the individual you are dealing with, so work hard to remain respectful thru the frustration. Hopefully you will come out ahead!
Not even going to waste too many keystrokes on responding to the normal "I hate insurance" horse crap stuff here, but it's just that...horse crap. They are NOT going to be out to "screw" you.
If you need help, feel free to ask me, I'll tell you the honest truth of how this all works. In short, if you were sitting still, you're an innocent third party and will be owed your damages. Questions would and could come up on who is going to pay. Yes, they could consider the car totaled. Cars like that aren't as easy for an insurance company to value, so just do some legwork and find cars that are like yours to help demonstrate its' value. Off the top of my head, I don't know what a '71 Country sedan is worth in great condition?? Be fair and honest about it. If it's truly worth $5000 (just picking a number), then it is what it is. Do you know a good source for parts? The adjuster who inspects the car won't find it in their database, so help out a bit and find parts.
Just remember that insurance companies are not in the business of making you whole or healthy. They are in the business of ensuring their stock holders receive maximum dividends.
Expect the best. Plan for the worst. The conclusion will be somewhere in the middle.
dean1484 said:
Don’t assume you are going to get screwed. Insurance company’s will low ball. It is there job but be nice and get going through the process. Get comps on you car. Look for others for sale nation wide in comparable condition. Also factor in shipping costs if you find comps a long way away. Share all this with them. You also have to understand that they deal with people that think there 1990 Corolla is somehow worth 10k. Another thing people need to realize is they are insuring a stock car. If you customize a car you need to get it inspected and evaluated and that is then submitted to your insurance and then be prepared for a rate increase.
The short of all this is that for the most part the system works. There will always be those special cases but generally I see those are people that are underinsured. Not a case of them getting screwed.
If your car was indeed special and worth something more than the typical car of that YM&M you should have addressed that with your coverage. That is not the insurance company’s fault.
I see this allot. I feel bad for people but if you want the coverage you have to get it and pay accordingly.
This. It won't necessarily be a war or you'll need an attorney or any of that. The insurance company is going to pay as little as they can, that's how business works. You have to negotiate. It's a pain, but be patient and cordial in your dealings and hopefully things will work out.
I went through this a few years back when someone ran a stop sign and totaled out my BMW 325ix. To the other driver's insurance company it was just an old 3 series, I had to convince them it was a rare model in good condition that was worth more than their original offer. It did take time and effort but in the end I was satisfied with their payout.
Klayfish said:
stuart in mn said:
The insurance company is going to pay as little as they can, that's how business works.
Wrong
How so? I didn't say they were out to screw people, but in any business the whole point is to make money, and insurance companies aren't any different.
maj75
HalfDork
7/29/18 9:43 a.m.
I’ve been screwed, I know a lot of other folks that have been screwed. I used to represent insurance companies and the claims side of companies, and saw personally that they screw people. Anyone who says different is selling something.
If people never got screwed by insurance there would be a hell of a lot less lawsuits filed, because everyone who sued would lose, and that just isn’t the case. Some insurance companies are better, some are worse.
Wait and see what they tell you. Do your leg work and find honest comparables. I don’t know what your car is worth but you should have a fair idea after your research. If they don’t make you a fair offer, you can always take the at fault driver to court. Most likely you have a small claims process available. The folks at the courthouse can help you out with figuring out the rules and how much you can claim. You won’t need a lawyer. In some jurisdictions, the at fault driver can’t have a lawyer either. It’s just like those TV courtrooms. You each tell your side of the story, you present your evidence regarding damages and the judge decides.
Hopefully it won’t come to that and you will get a fair offer.
I'll say every time I've dealt with insurance on value of older cars, 1978 Mercedes 280, 88 Alfa Milano, 77 X1/9, theyve treated me right.
Every time I've been involved with insurance claims I loose. Usually a lot.
Okay, skipping over insurance to the repair.
Pay attention to any repair warranty offers, and try to get the car someplace where you feel comfortable, and where you think you can easily return it if you need to claim on the warranty.
When the body shop is done, you're going to be impressed. They're going to have replaced some stuff you didn't think was involved - maybe they found that some brackets were bent, and you needed a new vacuum reservoir mount or something. Perhaps they went to all four corners and put new curb feelers on because yours were rusted to the fender and they have an accessory allowance.
Don't be sucked in.
Spend some time looking at all of the technical and fidgety bits. Are your turn signals wobbly, like they didn't use all of the screws? Did they strip out the star on your headlight screws? Are your badges cracked? Taking a car apart, you're going to bend and break clips and fasteners - did they put fresh ones on? Are all the trim parts like the other trim parts?
I had some issues on the CR-Z (which is put together with quite a bit more plastic, admittedly) after the parking lot gravel mishap that I didn't catch at the time. I have a lifetime warranty on the repairs, but I have to drive thirty minutes the opposite way from work and leave it, and the problems are mostly about double-sided tape and those push in plastic pins that cost $15/pack on Amazon.
stuart in mn said:
Klayfish said:
stuart in mn said:
The insurance company is going to pay as little as they can, that's how business works.
Wrong
How so? I didn't say they were out to screw people, but in any business the whole point is to make money, and insurance companies aren't any different.
Like I said, not going to spend a lot of time on it, because people will think what they want. However, quick summary of the process (we're talking total loss values here) and why it isn't to pay as little as possible.
Actually, the mantra that every carrier I know of uses is literally "Pay what you owe". That is beaten into adjusters' heads. I's definitely not "pay as little as possible". One thing people overlook in these threads is that the auto insurance industry is very heavily regulated. There are clear guidelines set forth by the state as to how claims must be handled. One of the guidelines is how vehicles actual cash value (ACV) is determined. The state sets the approved methods on how an ACV is determined. Carriers use third party vendors. The 1000lb gorilla in the industry is called CCC. They do constant market surveys on vehicle values, and then things like mileage, condition and geographical area are considered. A handful of states don't approve CCC, and in those cases typically book values are utilized, mostly commonly NADA.
Is it possible that CCC or NADA are wrong? Yup, it happens. Especially on rare or otherwise uncommon cars. They do best on cars in the meat of the bell curve of cars people own...Accord, Camry, F150, etc... Actually, they can be wrong on both ends, high and low. When it does get it wrong on the low side, the customer simply needs to document why it's wrong. Most adjusters' aren't car fanatics...they wouldn't know what a '71 Ford wagon is worth, they'd rely on the valuation service.
What doesn't happen is that a valuation comes back at $10,000 and the insurance company says "Let's just try to pay them $8000 and see if they'll take it". It's not a secret that you can file a complaint with the DOI. When that happens, the carrier must document how they came up with their ACV. If a carrier got caught doing the above scenario, the fines and penalties against them would make the value of the $10k car look like childs' play.
Was anyone ticketed in the accident? The Little Old Lady from Pasadena? How much damage was done to the Cadillac?
+1 to Klayfish
I am in the homeowners side of insurance at this point but it's the same idea. Pay what you owe under the policy.
Now that doesn't mean pay what they want or pay what the policy doesnt owe for or cover.
For example I had a hail claim recently. No damage to the shingles only to a plastic skylight. I noticed denting on the metal carport cover though. The insured tells me he doesn't care about that but wants to replace an undamaged skylight at the same time as the damaged one. I can't write up for an undamaged skylight but also can't ignore his damaged carport. Now he's getting a check for the damaged skylight +/- $500 and about $5k for the carport. If I could just do whatever I wanted and made the insured happy by paying for two skylights it would have saved about $4k. But it doesnt work that way.
My advise would be honest with yourself about the condition and actual value of the car and get documents of comparable cars to prove your case. For us as a whole it's being able to document and justify what we are paying or recommending payment for.
