My 71 Ford wagon got dinged, or How Not to Get Screwed by Allstate?

Update:

I just got an "Estimate of Record" from Allstate, based on the photos that I sent to them through their cellphone app.

The estimate is for $850, and ignores half of the damage that the pictures show.  The tip of the hood (and moulding), the tip of the right fender (and moulding), and the bumper were all damaged.  It addresses only the hood, hood moulding, and bumper.

I called the claims agent to discuss this, and she informed me that State Farm, the company that insures the woman who turned into the path of the Escalade that hit me, is denying responsibility (because they are denying contact between the Regal and the Escalade), and, if they continue to do that, I won't get paid at all, because my car doesn't have collision coverage.  I really don't see how State Farm's opinion matters in this, because the vehicle that hit me is another Allstate vehicle, and it doesn't matter to me or my car why the Allstate vehicle hit me. 

I find this analogous to the notion that, if you are sitting in line for a red light, and you get rear-ended and pushed into the car in front of you, you are responsible to the damage to the car that your car hit. This is something that I have only heard anecdotally, so if it's not true, please feel free to correct me.

So, at this point, I'm unhappy on two fronts. Well, three, because the front end of this car was its absoulte best feature.

Also, at this point, I'm accepting advice on how to improve my position.  I will be getting my own repair estimate, of course, but I also need to know how to get paid if  State Farm decides that their policyholder didn't hit the Escalade.

In reply to snailmont5oh :

Take my advice and don’t give up and don’t give in. Like I said, we were offered $12,000 to fix my house after a car hit it and we ended up with $53,000.

Several things: 1- definitely get an estimate or two from independent repair shops, 2- Find comparable vehicles advertised tto establish the value of your car, 3_ If all else fails, I'm sure your state has an agency that oversees Insurance. File a complaint through the state.

shocker that allstate ignored 1/2 the damage in order to lowball you on the estimate.  We just had the same thing happen with state farm.  My dad backed into my wife's car and they conveniently ignored the damage to the trunklid and only quoted repair of the bumper cover.   Then when I called them they said i'd just have to take it to get fixed and then submit a supplemental estimate for the stuff they ignored in the first place. 

Photos often don't show all.

Have an adjuster look at it.

snailmont5oh said:

I hope they check Hagerty and NADA, and at least try to be fair with the value of the thing. 

Ha, fair and insurance settlement, sort of like jumbo shrimp and military intelligence 

Klayfish said:

They are not going to be out to screw you

Initial response from his insurance, "We are out to screw you."

Insurance companies are in the business of making money, period.  Anyone tells you different is selling something, works for them or both.

Good luck with them.  They will absolutely try to low ball you and pay as little as they possibly can, as you are experiencing.  If there is no personal injury involved, attorneys will be disinterested in taking your case.

Car hits you from behind and pushes you into car in front of you.  Your insurance pays for the car in front, goes after the car that hit you from behind to collect from them.  Subrogation is the term I believe.

The only insurance you need to deal with is the car that hit you. Have you actually filed a claim against the person that hit you?  That is the only part of the accident that you care about or should concern yourself with. whatever happened between the car that hit you and anything else you don’t care about. 

In reply to Toebra :

A guy who was over twice the legal limit plowed across my lawn (before totaling my rented 2017 Altima and the Denali I brought home two hours earlier) tearing up three 60’ strips of sod so that all three cars and the driveway were covered in dirt and he also crushed a shrub, all documented and discussed verbally. What did they offer us? $26 and a link to Home Depot for a bag of topsoil and a bag of grass seed.

Tell me, what would happen if I low-balled them what I was gonna pay for their coverage?

I filed a claim with Allstate. Maybe that's where the confusion lies. Maybe *I* thought I was filing a claim against the Escalade's policy, and Allstate thought I was filing on my own (which I wouldn't do, because I don't have collision coverage).

Their estimate says that the hood moulding is $50. I found one on EBay for $50, but it plainly states in the description that it's damaged. The only good one I've found so far is $675. 

snailmont5oh said:

Update:

I just got an "Estimate of Record" from Allstate, based on the photos that I sent to them through their cellphone app.

The estimate is for $850, and ignores half of the damage that the pictures show.  The tip of the hood (and moulding), the tip of the right fender (and moulding), and the bumper were all damaged.  It addresses only the hood, hood moulding, and bumper.

I called the claims agent to discuss this, and she informed me that State Farm, the company that insures the woman who turned into the path of the Escalade that hit me, is denying responsibility (because they are denying contact between the Regal and the Escalade), and, if they continue to do that, I won't get paid at all, because my car doesn't have collision coverage.  I really don't see how State Farm's opinion matters in this, because the vehicle that hit me is another Allstate vehicle, and it doesn't matter to me or my car why the Allstate vehicle hit me. 

I find this analogous to the notion that, if you are sitting in line for a red light, and you get rear-ended and pushed into the car in front of you, you are responsible to the damage to the car that your car hit. This is something that I have only heard anecdotally, so if it's not true, please feel free to correct me.

So, at this point, I'm unhappy on two fronts. Well, three, because the front end of this car was its absoulte best feature.

Also, at this point, I'm accepting advice on how to improve my position.  I will be getting my own repair estimate, of course, but I also need to know how to get paid if  State Farm decides that their policyholder didn't hit the Escalade.

 

OK, again, I'd encourage you to ignore the "I hate insurance even though I don't understand it" stuff you'll see here. 

I'm not crystal clear on how this accident happened.  Let's pretend you were sitting at the light, facing north.  Help me out with where the other cars were and what happened.  You are negligence free from what you've described, but I want to be sure I understand the rest of the picture.

If I'm right, State Farm insures the Regal, right?  That car wasn't physically involved in the accident, correct?  The reason I ask is that it matters to State Farm when they're investigating liability.  You're in PA, if your profile is accurate.  Don't want to dive too deep into the weeds here, but for you it would have to do with something called Joint and Several liability.  I don't deal with PA anymore, but I am pretty sure PA doesn't recognize joint and several.  What that means is this...let's call the Regal car "A", the Caddy car "B" and you car "C".  If car A is 20% liable (just making a number up), under current PA law (I think) they would only owe you 20% of your damages even though you are negligence free.  If the state did recognize joint and several, you could collect 100% from car A even if they were only 1% liable.  Big difference.  So, it could get a bit hairy.  I can explain to you in more detail if you'd like to PM me.  I need to know more details about the accident, but if you don't have collision coverage your best bet may be to file small claims suit against the driver mostly responsible (again, I can explain more).   The reason why is that neither carrier may want to step up and pay for all of your damages and hope to recover some from the other carrier, unless they can come to an agreement before any checks are sent.

As for the estimate, don't even worry about it.  It's got nothing whatsoever to do with trying to "screw you".  Those photo apps, while wonderful and I'm a HUGE fan of them, are really just designed to get you started.  They are not a final estimate at all.  If Allstate were paying the claim, you'd just bring that estimate to the shop of your choice and when they start working on the car, they'd send in a supplement.  Easy peasy.  Very, very common. 

Don49 said:

Several things: 1- definitely get an estimate or two from independent repair shops, 2- Find comparable vehicles advertised tto establish the value of your car, 3_ If all else fails, I'm sure your state has an agency that oversees Insurance. File a complaint through the state.

+1 on getting an independent quote and finding a shop that's going to do the insurance leg work for you. There will always be something underneath that a picture won't show. 

In reply to Klayfish :

I was at a stop sign, with my left turn signal on, waiting for traffic to clear so that I could turn left. The State Farm-insured Regal with the 88-year-old driver approached from my right, turned on her left turn signal, stopped, and waved for me to go. She didn't have a stop sign, so I refused. She waved two more times, but I stood fast. She finally got annoyed, and made her turn, but when she did, it was right into the path of the Allstate-insured Escalade, which brushed across the nose of my wagon when it steered to avoid the Regal.

The only car that contacted me was the Escalade, and that may have been the only contact in the whole incident. 

Allstate (also my insurance company) is telling me that they have no responsibility to pay me because I don't have collision coverage, when it seems clear to me that someone they insure caused damage to my car, and that policy's liability coverage should take care of it. 

As for the partial estimate, and letting the shop take care of getting adjustments made goes, the last time (20 years ago) that I let Allstate and a shop take care of my vehicle, Allstate specified reproduction parts, and the "reputable" shop got mad and did a crappy job putting them on. In the resulting "he said/she said", the truck stayed exactly the same, because nobody took the responsibility to fix it. Because of this, I'd much rather get a check for the full cost of the repair, and control the repair process myself. 

   With normal car Insurance, the car's worth is book value, and for a car that is more than 10 years old, the book value is often less than the repair cost.

       For classic car Insurance you have agreed value, and some limited use agreement.   Typically you also must have a normal car with normal Insurance.  The agreed value doesn't even have to be the same as what you paid for it or what the book value is.   The agreed value of my classic car is more than I paid and more than book value, but still not a lot of money anyhow.

           I bet in this case the car is totaled, they will want to give you a check for the car.  It will be less than you think the car is worth.   Basically you  can take the check and buy a different car or buy the car back from the Insurance company, then you can attempt to fix the car with the money from the Insurance company.   After they total the car they also take the car, it is often then sold at auction.    But for a fairly small fee you can buy it back from the Insurance company, but at that point it will have a salvage title.

        The insurance is to replace your loss, the max loss is considered the value of the car.    

In reply to snailmont5oh :

Got it.  So if you were north, the Regal was westbound and the Escalade east.  You had a stop sign, the other two didn't.  The Regal tried to turn left and head south, but it turned into the path of the Slade.  Slade swerved and hit you. 

Yeah, that can get tricky.  I can see where the Regal and Slades' carrier wouldn't want to take on full payment for your damages, and under PA law they don't have to.  I know you have insurance with Allstate, but as you mentioned earlier you can't confuse your Allstate policy with the Slades.  Pretend the Slade has insurance with Nationwide.  Make a liability claim under that specific policy for the Slade.  See what they are willing to pay.  Call State Farm directly and speak to the adjuster.  What are they willing to cover?  Really, the State Farm adjuster should be talking to the Slade Allstate adjuster to see if they can agree on how to split damage to your car.  If they can't agree, you may need to file small claims matter, and it would be against both drivers...not the insurance companies. 

With the estimate, you can take it to any shop you want.  Doesn't need to be an Allstate shop.  The important thing is to make sure that shop has the initial Allstate estimate.  As I said, the shop...which you will chose and have control over...will complete a supplement for any missed damage.  It's really not a big deal.

Since the car is over 10 years old they may not give it a salvage title if you buy it back.  Some states don't worry with anything 10 years or older.

Speaking as a guy that owns many classics and several old Fords, trim etc can be a royal pain to find at all,  much less for a reasonable cost.  I have agreed upon value policies on all my classics and would suggest you move to that going forward....makes things much easier and is generally very reasonably priced.  They might total it,  but at least when they do you know what to expect.