my first harness/bucket seat install, help me pick harnesses

I purchased a pair of buckets and brackets for the corvette and could use some guidance on what harness style to purchase.  The mounting kits came with a 4 point mount setup (no provisions for 5/6 point).  In my research I have found a suitable 4 point setup and a few options to install sub belts to go /w 5 or 6 point harnesses.  

Option 1; Schroth ASM harnesses cost $1000 ($500 per harness) and I have everything else needed to complete the install.  

Option 2; 6 point setup, racequip sells a harness setup for around $190 a piece and I can either pick up a Marrad rear seat mount (https://www.marradind.com/proddetail.asp?prod=C56RMS) or the FDFRaceShop brackets that I have can be upgraded for around $200 a kit, so the cost would be around $800.  

So the question is this
1. 4 point ASM vs 6 point for HPDE car 

2. if 6 point what brand/setup/etc.  there are alot of options, a wide range of prices, etc.  

100% go for 6 point, as far as the brackets/mounts, I'll let someone else have input

gixxeropa said:

100% go for 6 point, as far as the brackets/mounts, I'll let someone else have input

thanks any suggestions on brands, options, etc.  pull up, pull down, 2"/3", etc.  

Regarding 2"/3", look at your HANS and see what it is compatible with. I preferred wider for comfort before the HANS, but, although my Schroth Flex is technically compatible with my 3" shoulder belts, I don't care for how the belts fit over it. I'll probably do 2" shoulder belt next time around for better fit.

And DO use a HANS. I ran without one for a while, and plenty of people do, but people also have lived long lives smoking every day. Doesn't make it smart. 

cyow5 said:

Regarding 2"/3", look at your HANS and see what it is compatible with. I preferred wider for comfort before the HANS, but, although my Schroth Flex is technically compatible with my 3" shoulder belts, I don't care for how the belts fit over it. I'll probably do 2" shoulder belt next time around for better fit.

And DO use a HANS. I ran without one for a while, and plenty of people do, but people also have lived long lives smoking every day. Doesn't make it smart. 

I don't currently have a HANS but it's on my list to pick up before next season.  

The Marrad mounts are probably the cheapest way to get a harness into your car. Their website isn't super clear, but you can order them with provisions for the lap belts. If you want to come by some day and take a look at mine, let me know. I had to touch up a couple corners with my angle grinder to clearance the depressions the feet go into with the studs.

If you're going to the trouble of seats, 100% get 6pt belts. 4pt ASM is really only for OEM seats that don't have a belt hole. Racequip is fine. Make sure you pick pull up harnesses. pull downs will be impossible There are some other features like finger loops that can make particular harnesses easier to use. FIA harnesses are certified longer if you care. 2" shoulder belts work better with most hans. One other thing to note is bolt ends are probably going to be easier to mount than clip ends. I used clips and the eyebolts were a chore. flat bolt ends would have been easier and with more clearance in a corvette.

You do have a plan for a hans, right? You'll need one. Also what are you running for a bar?

Like I said, if you want to see my setup, feel free to give me a buzz.

I have used and like CROW. 

https://www.crowsafetygear.com/

I have used others as well, nevr had a problem with racequip, pyrotec, ect, but CROW just meets me on quality/price/comfort. 

And do get a HANS. From what I remember stand21 makes a good one. 

I just bought and installed a Stroud 7 point harness. I was starting from a blank canvas, though, so I just had to install a bunch of eye bolts and their associated gigantic washers. I went with:

- 3" on the shoulders and hips.

- Pull down straps. (This might have been a mistake, but they work.)

- Wrap-around, individual shoulder straps for the harness bar.

- Clips for eye-bolt mounting.

It's a bit frustrating trying to figure out how the specific harness you want will be configured when it arrives at your door. The online stores aren't great at displaying all of the configurations, either. Clips, bolt-in, wrap around, just one long shoulder harness, or two... etc. There are a lot of factors. In your shoes, I'd go with the 6 point system. For belt width, I'm not sure what the conventions say when deciding between 2" and 3", but design constraints just outside of personal comfort may factor in ways you don't expect (maybe a 3" lap belt doesn't FIT in the space you have beside your seats).

theruleslawyer said:

The Marrad mounts are probably the cheapest way to get a harness into your car. Their website isn't super clear, but you can order them with provisions for the lap belts. If you want to come by some day and take a look at mine, let me know. I had to touch up a couple corners with my angle grinder to clearance the depressions the feet go into with the studs.

If you're going to the trouble of seats, 100% get 6pt belts. 4pt ASM is really only for OEM seats that don't have a belt hole. Racequip is fine. Make sure you pick pull up harnesses. pull downs will be impossible There are some other features like finger loops that can make particular harnesses easier to use. FIA harnesses are certified longer if you care. 2" shoulder belts work better with most hans. One other thing to note is bolt ends are probably going to be easier to mount than clip ends. I used clips and the eyebolts were a chore. flat bolt ends would have been easier and with more clearance in a corvette.

You do have a plan for a hans, right? You'll need one. Also what are you running for a bar?

Like I said, if you want to see my setup, feel free to give me a buzz.

all great questions.

As for the harness bar, i don't have one yet hoping one shows up used before next season if not i'll probably end up with either the shark bar or Bray Krause.  Hans is on my agenda is planned as well.  

The seats I picked up are actually a set of the ST3 Marrad seats but they came with a set of FDFRaceShop mounts.  The mounts are 4 point only but i reached out to FDFRaceShop and they offered to sell me the parts required to convert to 6 point.  The Marrad rear mount setup is a little cheaper but the FDFRaceShop is an integrated solution and the mounts which I have in hand look like really good bits of kit, quality.  I lose the ability to adjust either seat but nobody else wants to drive my car so i'm going to run what I have right now.  

2 cents Canadian :) 

If you will be installing everything you're self check a couple of sites and pay close attention to the placement and angles of the straps to the mounting point to ensure they will do their job as Intended should you ever Really need them...
Belts  installed Incorrectly can be worse that standard Lap and shoulder belts...

Don

I like 6 point belts.  I've recently switched to 2" Sabelt harnesses in both the Miata and the Formula Ford and I'm really happy with them.  They're sort of mid priced.  In the tight confines of a Corvette you're probably going to want pull up belts since there's no place to pull down to.

ClearWaterMS said:

The seats I picked up are actually a set of the ST3 Marrad seats but they came with a set of FDFRaceShop mounts.  The mounts are 4 point only but i reached out to FDFRaceShop and they offered to sell me the parts required to convert to 6 point.  The Marrad rear mount setup is a little cheaper but the FDFRaceShop is an integrated solution and the mounts which I have in hand look like really good bits of kit, quality.  I lose the ability to adjust either seat but nobody else wants to drive my car so i'm going to run what I have right now.  

Yah, the FDF mounts look like they are a nice bit of kit. If you already have them I certainly wouldn't be in a rush to get anything else. FWIW if you want a non adjustable mount for the passenger seat I have a aluminum one you can have. My car came with two and I'm still using one for my passenger seat, but the other is just taking up space in the basement.

We have one car with pull up belts and one with pull down belts. I don't know why anybody would buy pull down belts. I can't tighten the pull down belts by myself. When I'm out for a long stint(1.5-2.5 hours) I like to give my belts a yank here and there just to keep them extra tight. The pull down belts don't allow me to do that. If there will be more than one sized driver then look for an anti-sub strap with the adjustment at the top.

buzzboy said:

We have one car with pull up belts and one with pull down belts. I don't know why anybody would buy pull down belts. I can't tighten the pull down belts by myself. When I'm out for a long stint(1.5-2.5 hours) I like to give my belts a yank here and there just to keep them extra tight. The pull down belts don't allow me to do that. If there will be more than one sized driver then look for an anti-sub strap with the adjustment at the top.

I'd love to run pull-up style for the lap but my car does not have enough space between the mounting points and where they go through the seat to accommodate that.

I'm running 2" wide 6-point Sparco harnesses and I would not recommend them. The material used for that actual harness webbing is very stiff which makes them even harder to adjust. A friend has a set of Schroth harnesses in his rally car and the quality difference is very noticeable (they are twice the money though). Hopefully next time I buy harnesses I can swing the extra expense to get something nicer.

NOT 4 points.  They always end up with the lap portion near your stomach.  Bad times.

5 or 6 point for sure.

The adjusters on cheaper belts always feel like ahit and get gummed up.

I suggest a 2inch belt from a big player (my personal favorite is Scroth).

I like the scroth flexi.  It is capable of pull up or down.  It also has great adjusters.

A set saved my life at Charlotte! 

https://discoveryparts.com/collections/racing-restraints-nets/products/schroth-flexi-2x2-6-point-racing-harness-3?variant=44694131900635

I've never owned a set but I've liked the Scroth belts in the cars that I've driven.

I was told to not run a harness if you don't have a cage or roll bar. In the event your car flips, the standard 3 point seatbelt allows your body to move more and potentially prevent a fatal squishing, where as the harness will do a great job keeping you in place....at least that's what I was told, so take it or leave it

That said, I do recommend a hans next, and then the harness.

I run a 6pt Schroth flexi and a Simpson hybrid sport Hans. I chose the belts because nascar, nasa, aviation, and military use Schroth...if it keeps them safe it should keep me safe too.

i chose the Simpson hybrid Hans because I saw a video of extreme e race and the drivers shoulder harness slipped off after a jump and the traditional Hans was useless at that point. The hybrid Hans is anchored to your body, so you're always protected, and can even use it with traditional seat belts. It also allows for 2' wide harness which feels better to me.

Hoppps said:

I was told to not run a harness if you don't have a cage or roll bar.  

I strongly agree with this statement. Race car safety is a bit of an all-or-nothing proposition, half measures are often less safe than OEM belts and airbags. 

Don't waste time or money on a four point harness.  Again, lots of testing to show that they're often less safe than OEM. 

If you're managing to a budget, any set of 6 point belts that is SFI/FIA certified should be safe if they are installed properly and fit properly. That said, I've never regretted the extra money spent on Schroth.  Race weekends are stressful and busy, the last thing I want to be doing is berking around with cloogy belts when I'm trying to get in the car.