My husband said it couldn't be done (Suburban transmission content)

Ranger50 wrote:

volvoclearinghouse wrote: Out of curiosity, and perhaps/probably ignorance, but what ill effects do starting in Neutral and manual shifting have on an automatic trans?

Personal opinion: Not a damn thing. "Professional" opinion: Not a damn thing.

I'm no transmission guru, but I didn't think either of those things could cause trans failure. My dad always told us not to manually shift gears in an automatic, that we'd ruin it...I think he was just afraid of us driving aggressively, and ruining the rest of the truck. ;-) I'd never heard from anywhere that you should't start the vehicle in neutral vs. park. Some of the old automagics didn't even have a park, you were supposed to put it in neutral before starting it.

Mystery oil is the answer. Seriously, we had similar problems with Hydramatics, years ago.

SlickDizzy wrote:

Morbid wrote:

turboswede wrote: Governor is sticking not allowing it to shift into first. Flush/change the fluid and filter.

That was done within the last 10k miles, hence the feeling of unavoidable doom....

Anyone else ever noticed that flushes have a really good chance of killing high mile transmissions? Seems like every time I hear of a slushbox crapping the bed, it's 5-10k after a flush. Meanwhile, my dad's BMW E39 is at 240k on the original auto trans with nothing but an ATF drain & fill/filter change routine. I seem to recall reading somewhere that flushes almost always do more harm than good. Something about the pressure.

On the other hand...Have you ever noticed that people never flush the fluid in their transmissions until they notice something isn't working right? Cause/effect.

When was the last time you checked the level of your coolant? Did you overheat (or just run warm say 225-230 deg) recently? Many "modern" AT's can not stand temps above 225. Since the trans is cooled by the motor's cooling system if you run the motor hot you will overheat the trans and very bad things happen. Best thing is when you get it fixed have a HD remote trans cooler installed behind the grill to separate the cooling of the trans from the motors cooling system.

dean1484 wrote: When was the last time you checked the level of your coolant? Did you overheat (or just run warm say 225-230 deg) recently? Many "modern" AT's can not stand temps above 225. Since the trans is cooled by the motor's cooling system if you run the motor hot you will overheat the trans and very bad things happen. Best thing is when you get it fixed have a HD remote trans cooler installed behind the grill to separate the cooling of the trans from the motors cooling system.

Coolant level is fine, and it's never overheated that I know of. Fluids of all varieties were one of the first things we looked at when it started messing up.

Streetwiseguy wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote:

Morbid wrote:

turboswede wrote: Governor is sticking not allowing it to shift into first. Flush/change the fluid and filter.

That was done within the last 10k miles, hence the feeling of unavoidable doom....

Anyone else ever noticed that flushes have a really good chance of killing high mile transmissions? Seems like every time I hear of a slushbox crapping the bed, it's 5-10k after a flush. Meanwhile, my dad's BMW E39 is at 240k on the original auto trans with nothing but an ATF drain & fill/filter change routine. I seem to recall reading somewhere that flushes almost always do more harm than good. Something about the pressure.

On the other hand...Have you ever noticed that people never flush the fluid in their transmissions until they notice something isn't working right? Cause/effect.

Not in this case, everything was working fine when the system was flushed, and continued to work beautifully until 200ish miles ago.

Never flush, always drain and refill.

Morbid wrote: Suburban is supposed to be able to tow more than it's own weight without a problem, surely it could handle at least 2 years in my possession...Apparently not. ... 2001 1500, 2WD, just hit 150k miles.

While your logic seems like it should hold up, the 4L60E is the transmission GM used in this model, and as others have noted already, is notorious for requiring a rebuild well before 150K.

So... your husband is wrong. If you bought this truck with ~120K on it and put 15K/year on it, you've been driving a bit of a transmission time bomb. Even if you did nothing wrong, a rebuild is not out of the ordinary for that trans at that mileage.

Unfortunately GM did not pick a heavy duty transmission for a truck marketed as a heavy duty truck.

Morbid wrote: No neutral drops, I never understood the point.

Haven't you ever rented a car before?

Datsun310Guy wrote:

Morbid wrote: No neutral drops, I never understood the point.

Haven't you ever rented a car before?

Sure have, still have never been a 'neutral dropper'. I guess I'm too reserved for all that

I know - i was poking fun - Neutral drops were always funny back in 1977-1980 when other guys were doing this to their $300 used 1970 Impala's and Delta 88's......I have a rule - Never abuse my own cars or company cars. Rental cars are another story.............

Morbid wrote: Just in case I'm wrong, here are the stats and symptoms: 2001 1500, 2WD, just hit 150k miles.

There is part of the problem... As mentioned it only has the little 4L60E in it.. If you wanted the heavy hauler you needed to get a 2500 series with a 4L80E...

As also mentioned try putting it in manual 1st gear and see if it goes... DON'T mash on it you'll wipe out the extra set of clutches that are applied... If it gets up and goes and doesn't have the neutral problem then you have a worn out sprag.. I believe its the low/reverse sprag.. either way it will need a rebuild... get it done sooner rather then later and you'll save some coin on hard part damage..

Sounds like you need to stick to manuals.

Appleseed wrote: Sounds like you need to stick to manuals.

Agreed, but I have a bit of a klutzy streak, which has lead to several stints on crutches, so I keep the manuals for play vehicles and a slushbox around for DD'ing. When it comes to wrecking stuff, including the human body, you can count on me

93EXCivic wrote: Ok for the automatic transmission retarded, what is the difference between a drain and refill and flush? I have never owned and therefore worried about how to service automatics until I bought this truck.

Drain and fill means taking off the pan, changing the filter, and refilling. It only replaces about 5 quarts of fluid. A flush moves fluid via the pump to replace all the fluid without cleaning out the pan or changing the filter.

Either one can be trouble on a really old tranny that hasn't been maintained, but the drain and fill has less chance of damaging things.

Put it this way - If I pull a pan at the shop and see crazy E36 M3 in the pan, I just gently put the pan back on and leave it alone. If it already has shifting issues, any kind of fluid change won't help.

doing the pan drop, or just removing the plug ( Suby ) and draining / replacing .... then driving for a few hundred miles .... wash/rinse/repeat eventually changes out most if not all the old fluid without many of the risks associated with a "power" flush

wbjones wrote: doing the pan drop, or just removing the plug ( Suby ) and draining / replacing .... then driving for a few hundred miles .... wash/rinse/repeat eventually changes out most if not all the old fluid without many of the risks associated with a "power" flush

And costs $1000 in fluid.

SVreX wrote: Do you manually shift it through the gears? Do you start the car in park or in neutral?

what will either of these do to the transmission ?

In our case the 10,000 or so miles that have passed since I changed the filter and fluid equates to about 1.5 years. We don't put many miles on our vehicles, just lots of in town driving.

To me it seems more like it's starting in 2nd, then dropping down into 1st and taking off as it should.

16vCorey wrote:

wbjones wrote: doing the pan drop, or just removing the plug ( Suby ) and draining / replacing .... then driving for a few hundred miles .... wash/rinse/repeat eventually changes out most if not all the old fluid without many of the risks associated with a "power" flush

And costs $1000 in fluid.

Only for ZF boxes and CVTs. This is the method I've always used for my dad's BMW; two cycles through has always been good enough, IMO (and the car seems to agree). Takes me 4 jugs of ATF each time, so unless you're using $250/jug unicorn piss...$40 is more accurate.

The_Jed wrote: In our case the 10,000 or so miles that have passed since I changed the filter and fluid equates to about 1.5 years. We don't put many miles on our vehicles, just lots of in town driving. To me it seems more like it's starting in 2nd, then dropping down into 1st and taking off as it should.

Stupid question/suggestion time.

Have you had the transmission controller scanned? And I don't mean the fast food auto parts scanner either. It might not be enough to trip a CEL/MIL, but you may have a code in the trans leading to what is wrong, based on what you just said about it possibly being in 2nd and then dropping to 1st on takeoff. 2nd is the normal "limp-in" gear choice.

wbjones wrote:

SVreX wrote: Do you manually shift it through the gears? Do you start the car in park or in neutral?

what will either of these do to the transmission ?

Nothing. Unless they are coupled with something else.

For example, people who routinely start in neutral will generally swear they only do it when the car is standing still. They are frequently wrong about their own habits.

My FIL insists on manually shifting through the gears. He swears he's never done it, but I've seen him slip it into reverse when he meant to slip it into neutral while the car was rolling forward many times.

The action is harmless until the user gets sloppy and adds something else to it. Most of us get sloppier at times than we realize.

ok, thanks ... on the dearly departed Suby and now the F150 ... neither likes to shift out of first when they're cold ... just for gas milage and to get rid of the screaming revs of first gear at 25 - 30 mph, I'll sometimes start off in 1st and manually shift to 2nd then on to D .... as long as it's not hurting anything I'll keep on

Morbid, I'm afraid the solution is in fact that you have a "gift".

I wonder if you can give it back??

Sorry for your transmission woes.

SVreX wrote: Morbid, I'm afraid the solution is in fact that you have a "gift". I wonder if you can give it back?? Sorry for your transmission woes.

I've been trying to give it back for 10 years! I blame my dad, he bought me my first car, and chose one that already needed a new transmission. It was obviously a curse