So, you love the RX8, love Mazda, but hate the Renesis. You are happy with the car, except for the Renesis.

This doesn't sound too hard to me.

If your car needs an engine, why in the world would you spend $6K (WAAY too much) to put in a Renesis, which you hate?

Consider the LSX suggestions seriously.

So, you will have a motor swapped car ( which means questionable resale). But you will also have a car you love, he did of the Renesis which you hate, have a well-documented swap with a reliable engine, and get it done for a lot less then $6K. Win, win, win, win.

If the name brand swap bothers you, consider a Maxda engine other than the Renesis.

Hes in California i believe.

Which is why I don't jump on the ls swap bandwagon. Don't think the emissions Nazis will let it fly.

Dusterbd13 wrote: Hes in California i believe. Which is why I don't jump on the ls swap bandwagon. Don't think the emissions Nazis will let it fly.

It is doable. It just takes a few more steps to deal with the legalities than other states. The engine choices are more limited.

I am curious. Of the people yelling LS engine swap, how many of you have done one?

I've done a few ls swaps. Just none into something modern. An rx8 would be a whole different animal than a 68 camaro.

I did Google, and it doesn't look too bad, but the internet makes everything look easier than it typically is.

Yes I'm suspicious of the need for a new engine. The dealership would love to take your money and bolt in a rebuilt engine. The compression's are not terrible.

SVreX wrote: So, you love the RX8, love Mazda, but hate the Renesis. You are happy with the car, except for the Renesis. This doesn't sound too hard to me. If your car needs an engine, why in the world would you spend $6K (WAAY too much) to put in a Renesis, which you hate? Consider the LSX suggestions seriously. So, you will have a motor swapped car ( which means questionable resale). But you will also have a car you love, he did of the Renesis which you hate, have a well-documented swap with a reliable engine, and get it done for a lot less then $6K. Win, win, win, win. If the name brand swap bothers you, consider a Maxda engine other than the Renesis.

Has the swap been well-documented? Last i heard the gauge issue still hadn't been reliably worked out and that's why there aren't actually many of these swaps.

That said, an LSX swap well under $6k sounds awesome to me. If that's a legitimate number.

Number one diagnosis tip on the beginning of every Ford manual I've ever touched says

1 "CHECK FUEL PRESSURE BEFORE ANY OTHER DIAGNOSTIC TESTS ARE DONE"

that and 60k on coils is double what's normal life span of OE, definitely start with your basics.

Btw you can get a remanufactured engine straight from Mazda for about $3500 with a $1000 core last time I checked and that was for my S2.

Edit: 150+k for a fuel pump is a damn good life tbh

I agree that you should complete the diagnostic work and fix anything wrong first, then once it's running better, you'll have a better chance of selling it, if that's what you want to do, or if you decide to get a rebuild, the new motor will be much happier in there with good fuel and spark.

I'll just pile in here - I don't know how long you can go with this car off-line, but I gotta figure that you can pull your motor and replace or rebuild it for a lot less than $6k. A quick look at some guy's online how-to seems to show a lot of methodical work, but no magic tools or double-elbowed arms required.

I'd offer to help with the removal/replacement, but my weekends are pretty whacked going out several weeks and I don't want to make promises I can't keep. :(

My brother has an '05 RX-8 with 70-80k miles on it (no drive commute to work the first few years). He's experienced lots of issues with his MAF going bad, plugs getting fouled, and from day one his coils were crap. We only realized the bad OEM coils after installing BHR coils and seeing a huge improvement in low speed drivability. I've been a passenger and driven the car when it's been running poorly and it's amazing what a new set of spark plugs will do for it.

Start with installing newer coils ('08+ are the improved ones iirc) and fresh spark plugs. Then go out and spend some quality time near redline. Wail on it! When was the last time the ECU got a reflash to the latest tune? After doing that little stuff which is not very expensive see if it's cured. If not, rebuild or move on.

Good point re the fuel pressure. Yes do that!!!!!

A low-reading MAF will result in insufficient fuel AND too much timing. Mass airflow is how engine load is calculated.

Swank Force One wrote: A few grand for another 150k wouldn't sound terrible to me.

That's where I'd be too.

To your original question a lot of the MOCC guys have good things to say about Tri-Point engineering. The other option would be Mazdatrix in Signal Hill which isn't all that far from San Fernando.

That is if you decide to go the rebuilt route.

Let me know if you decide to sell. I'm also in CA

Update…I talked to Tri-Point Engineering today and they said $5,500 to $6,500 is the typical range for a rebuild.

My local Mazda Service Center originally quoted $6,600 but they quickly whacked 10% off the labor and offered me a free loner car when they heard I’m the original owner and that I drove an RX-7 for 18 years. Maybe they do that for everybody…maybe they’re sincerely trying to help a car guy out…whatever, it looks like $6,000 is the going price for a rebuild.

Peter

Thank you very much for even considering helping me…drop by for a good beer any time you want.

Let me just blast out my situation…I’m 51 years old, have two young daughters, and make well into six figures. I like working on cars and I’m reasonably competent but I’m not god’s gift to wrenching.

I’m not interested in doing an LS swap (I’d just go buy a Vett if I wanted that) and I don’t have the touch time or the calendar time to take on a project of this scale at this time. Lastly, I’ve got the SWMBO factor to deal with…as a legendary GRM poster said to me on the phone about an hour ago…”you’ve got to get the horse back into the barn.” I learned to fly when I was a kid and I was taught to “Plan your flight – fly your plan” and apparently, the same wisdom holds true in marriage.

Anyway, Tri-Point Engineering asked to see the exact diagnostic results (fuel, ignition, compression) which I will have tomorrow morning and they will give me their recommendation.

SVreX,

This might just be semantics but I don’t hate the Renesis…when it’s working, I’m completely satisfied…I just don’t accept its apparent 150,000 mile life span. When my first engine blew, there were extenuating circumstances that prevented me from drawing conclusions but this time around, there are no excuses.

amg_rx7,

Can you move quick? I put $3,200 into it in the last few months alone…I fully realize I won’t get it back out but I’d feel better knowing it didn’t go to waste.

Thank you everyone for your guidance.

I don't know rotaries well. But I am wondering if low compresion might be related to crud keeping the apex seals from sealing completely.

This is based completely on a story i heard from Rick Weldon of PR Motorsports up here in the bay area. A dealer recomended a rebuild when a rotary had no compression. A skilled application of the right slovent had it running again in a few minutes. The term he used was carbon lock.

Off-topic: I almost LOL'd when you asked amg_rx7 if he can move quickly. Anyone who has ever seen the guy on an autocross course knows he can move very quickly.

The apex seals can get stuck on cars that aren't driven a lot, but that gives you close to zero compression on one face. Gradual loss of compression does seem to indicate wear more than anything.

From my research into RX8s, 150k is actually pretty decent lifespan for the motor, a lot of them seem to go sooner.

BoxheadTim wrote: The apex seals can get stuck on cars that aren't driven a lot, but that gives you close to zero compression on one face. Gradual loss of compression does seem to indicate wear more than anything. From my research into RX8s, 150k is actually pretty decent lifespan for the motor, a lot of them seem to go sooner.

I agree Tim.

I’ve got 157,000 miles on my rebuilt engine and that seems to be on the upper end of the normal range. Admittedly, my information is anecdotal but I’ve accumulated so much of it that it’s starting to drift into statistical validity.

I’ve got to say hats off to the guys at the Thousand Oaks, CA Mazda Service Center…they’ve been super accommodating and supportive throughout the process and I’ve now got the compression figures in my hands.

Rotor 1 / Leading = 6.3 6.3 6.2

Rotor 1 / Trailing = 6.5 6.5 6.5

Rotor 2 / Leading = 6.0 6.3 6.4

Rotor 2 / Training = 6.0 6.3 6.4

FWIW, the apex seals on my FC RX-7 stuck one time when I let it sit for several weeks while on a trip to Europe. The starter motor was able to spool the engine up to around 1,800 RPM’s as there was no compression to overcome. I did the ATF trick, put in new plugs, and was back in business in no time; easy-pezy

This time around, it’s nothing like that…I appear to be getting blow by while under high load conditions and at around 6,500 RPM’s, it starts to knock. This is the exact opposite of what I would both expect and have personally experienced in the past. High RPM’s = high centrifugal force = maximum apex seal extension = maximum compression.

I totally agree that ignition and/or fuel issues could cause the damage but Mazda is adamant that they’ve checked both and they’re fine.

Bottom line, I’m 95% sure the apex seals are toast and even if they’re not, unsticking them is only going to buy me a little time as I’m already on borrowed time at 157,000 miles.

Original owner (with 286,000 miles of rotor experience when he bought it) – California car – $3,200 spent in the last few months alone on nice new Yokohama’s and struts all around, clutch, pilot bearing, throw out bearing, blah, blah, blah. Shifts perfect, AC blows cold, absolutely everything works correctly, blah, blah blah.

If anybody wants it, contact me immediately as it may be gone today.

It's probably the side seals worn if anything if there is excessive blowby. Side exhaust ports put a lot of heat load on them.

Heck, in my old school engines, the side seals are the primary wear item, not the apex seals.

While I wouldn't be surprised by general wear at that mileage I still have to wonder.

How did they check the coils? A simple ohm out is NOT a definitive test. You at least have to put it on a adjustable gap tester to see how it performs under load.

Sooooo I will say if I was not moving this month I would definitely do a fly and drive, aside from that I'm sorry it's come to this but it's also completely understandable.

If you want to sell anything you have for it I'm definitely interested, just shoot me a PM, Good luck sir!

Kenny_McCormic wrote: ...How did they check the coils? A simple ohm out is NOT a definitive test. You at least have to put it on a adjustable gap tester to see how it performs under load.

I would think, considering the circumstances, if he does do the rebuild you ABSOLUTELY put new coils in, so maybe it doesn't matter. It would be nice to know if they were an issue, but I would hope Mazda would know how to test them properly (?!)

I still would like to know how loosing compression causes a knock. Maybe it's a bizarre rotary thing. On the surface it seems something caused the knock and the knock caused the seal damage (it knocked briefly before, but only lost power after the second episode). I think it was noted the the loss of power was not continual, it would drive "normal" sometimes, which is even stranger if that is from the seals...

...rotarys... they're witchcraft I tell you...

Misfiring can cause detonation in a peripheral-exhaust engine, not sure about a side-exhaust because of the way things kinda keep floating around in there.

Misfiring can also cause detonation in a piston engine too, although few people are hairy-edge enough to get to that point. The problem with rotaries is that it is so incredibly easy to make a lot of power that the hairy edge is available to everyone. Just like how Megasquirt makes tuning and engineering problems available to the common man

aircooled wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote: ...How did they check the coils? A simple ohm out is NOT a definitive test. You at least have to put it on a adjustable gap tester to see how it performs under load.

I would think, considering the circumstances, if he does do the rebuild you ABSOLUTELY put new coils in, so maybe it doesn't matter. It would be nice to know if they were an issue, but I would hope Mazda would know how to test them properly (?!)

I would hazard a guess they just ohmed them, gap testing is one of those old school things people forget about and is probably not mentioned in the FSM. The only other way of doing it involves a good oscilloscope and takes longer than the flat rate tech probably makes on a diagnostic order.

It’s gone.

I traded it in on a 2016 Explorer for my family and I’m using our old 2003 Explorer as a lifeboat until I figure out what I want.

What should I get???

I think I can’t stand front wheel drive but a VW GTI would be perfect if it wasn’t for the poor reliability.

I think I can’t stand automatics but if I got something with a torquey narrow RPM range, I’d get it with a slush box.

Basically, I need four seats and the back two can’t be a joke, otherwise the BRZ / FR-S twins would be an option.

The Mustang has evolved into a viable candidate (I prefer sports cars to muscle cars) but I’m 51 and tend keep my cars for a long time so I’m a little hesitant to get something too youth focused – sounds dumb even typing that so keep the Mustang as a possibility.

A 3 Series BMW would be ideal but I don’t want high operational costs…IS 250 perhaps.

Thoughts???