ND Miata Brake callipers fit on NA Miata ??

https://www.reddit.com/r/Miata/comments/c8hlkc/nd_brembos_on_an_na_miata_say_it_aint_so/

A big grain of salt here, but this looks promising. They claim drilled out 1.6 brackets fit the ND callipers.

"Drill out the caliper mounting holes from an m10 to an m12. And throw them on there with ND rotors and stainless braided brake lines."

"Correct. I did have to buy a couple of 1/8th inch spacers (basically thick washers) to space the caliper out from the car to get it centered on the rotor but that was about it other than drilling the holes out a bit"

Only problem is the ND brembo calipers are already priced like they are gold. So unless you get really lucky, a BBK kit will be cheaper. 

Isn't ND 5-lug and NA 4-lug? Would take a bit more work to swap to an ND rotor like mentioned.

wlkelley3 said:

Isn't ND 5-lug and NA 4-lug? Would take a bit more work to swap to an ND rotor like mentioned.

Nope.  NC was 5x114.3, ND went back to 4x100. 

I’m pretty happy with the Wildwood BBK on my NA, but the Dynalite calipers are known for being... not great.  If the Brembos are a more robust caliper, maybe this is a good option.  Time to start prowling the junkyards for wrecked ND’s.

So.... I can score some ND brake stuffs when I’m in Japan... this gives me ideas. 

ShinnyGroove said:

I’m pretty happy with the Wildwood BBK on my NA, but the Dynalite calipers are known for being... not great.  If the Brembos are a more robust caliper, maybe this is a good option.  Time to start prowling the junkyards for wrecked ND’s.

That's why we spec Dynapros - they're stiffer. Although "robustness" isn't really a factor, the Wilwoods hold up well for years and years and years.

Interesting concept here. Haven't tried it, but I can see it. We were able to get a prototype brake setup on our ND in hours because it had some similar dimensions to earlier cars. IIRC the piston sizes are also basically the same so at least it's not a dangerous mismatch.

However, a set of good Wilwoods will give better brake feel, all the pad choices and drop a big chunk of weight compared to the ND brakes. So while it's something that CAN be done, it's hard to come up with a reason why you SHOULD. A set of "Sport" brakes from a late NB would be a straight bolt-on and get you all the same attributes.

Keith Tanner said:

ShinnyGroove said:

I’m pretty happy with the Wildwood BBK on my NA, but the Dynalite calipers are known for being... not great.  If the Brembos are a more robust caliper, maybe this is a good option.  Time to start prowling the junkyards for wrecked ND’s.

That's why we spec Dynapros - they're stiffer. Although "robustness" isn't really a factor, the Wilwoods hold up well for years and years and years.

Interesting concept here. Haven't tried it, but I can see it. We were able to get a prototype brake setup on our ND in hours because it had some similar dimensions to earlier cars. IIRC the piston sizes are also basically the same so at least it's not a dangerous mismatch.

However, a set of good Wilwoods will give better brake feel, all the pad choices and drop a big chunk of weight compared to the ND brakes. So while it's something that CAN be done, it's hard to come up with a reason why you SHOULD. A set of "Sport" brakes from a late NB would be a straight bolt-on and get you all the same attributes.

Don’t the bigger Dynapro calipers have some challenges with wheel fitment?  I really don’t have that much room to give between the Dynalites and 15x8 wheels.  I ran the Sport calipers for a while, but options for track pads are pretty limited and I had issues with the single piston/sliding pin setup tapering the pads.

I'm not sure when it would be useful, I just found it interesting. They put on the Brembo on their NA, though I suppose that means the stock calipers work too.

ShinnyGroove said:

Keith Tanner said:

ShinnyGroove said:

I’m pretty happy with the Wildwood BBK on my NA, but the Dynalite calipers are known for being... not great.  If the Brembos are a more robust caliper, maybe this is a good option.  Time to start prowling the junkyards for wrecked ND’s.

That's why we spec Dynapros - they're stiffer. Although "robustness" isn't really a factor, the Wilwoods hold up well for years and years and years.

Interesting concept here. Haven't tried it, but I can see it. We were able to get a prototype brake setup on our ND in hours because it had some similar dimensions to earlier cars. IIRC the piston sizes are also basically the same so at least it's not a dangerous mismatch.

However, a set of good Wilwoods will give better brake feel, all the pad choices and drop a big chunk of weight compared to the ND brakes. So while it's something that CAN be done, it's hard to come up with a reason why you SHOULD. A set of "Sport" brakes from a late NB would be a straight bolt-on and get you all the same attributes.

Don’t the bigger Dynapro calipers have some challenges with wheel fitment?  I really don’t have that much room to give between the Dynalites and 15x8 wheels.  I ran the Sport calipers for a while, but options for track pads are pretty limited and I had issues with the single piston/sliding pin setup tapering the pads.

They're almost exactly the same size when it comes to wheel fitment. Outside radius (clearance to the barrel) is identical. Width (clearance to spokes) is 0.04" worse. The six piston Dynapro 6A even fits the same - it's only bigger in length, and wheel fitment doesn't care about that. The main reason to spec Dynalites instead of Dynapros is cost.

I think the motivation to do the ND Brembo mount is because 1) it's different and 2) Brembo trumps Wilwood in the cool factor.

Keith Tanner said:\

They're almost exactly the same size when it comes to wheel fitment. Outside radius (clearance to the barrel) is identical. Width (clearance to spokes) is 0.04" worse. The six piston Dynapro 6A even fits the same - it's only bigger in length, and wheel fitment doesn't care about that. The main reason to spec Dynalites instead of Dynapros is cost.

I think the motivation to do the ND Brembo mount is because 1) it's different and 2) Brembo trumps Wilwood in the cool factor.

While the pads are hte same between the two, there's a difference in the retaining hardware, and there are some pads that are only available in one or the other.  (some you can make fit with a grinder, but some are just missing material where you'd need it)

IME, the Wilwood calipers are somewhat disposable.  I was getting 20-30 track days out of them before the piston bores were chewed up enough to start binding, which leads to pad wear taper and bent backing plates.  I am not kind to the brakes on my Miata. :)  That works out to something like $10-20 per track day in caliper wear.

Pads are definitely different, but I haven't come across a pad that was available in Dynalite but not Dynapro. I don't doubt they exist, but usually a pad manufacturer can make you a pad on any backing plate you want. The Powerlites do have less "off the shelf" availability. 

I haven't had a whole lot of feedback re binding pistons after 20-30 track days. That's a new one to me. How long do stock calipers last you?

Keith Tanner said:

Pads are definitely different, but I haven't come across a pad that was available in Dynalite but not Dynapro. I don't doubt they exist, but usually a pad manufacturer can make you a pad on any backing plate you want. The Powerlites do have less "off the shelf" availability. 

I haven't had a whole lot of feedback re binding pistons after 20-30 track days. That's a new one to me. How long do stock calipers last you?

IIRC, some of the newer Hawk DTC compounds (-70?  -80?  I forget which) were only available in the Dynalite single-clip style.  That might be a temporary thing while they get production ramped up.

As for the pistons, last summer I went to an event at Laguna and was down to backing plates after 4 sessions (Hawk DTC-60s).  I swapped them out with a set of used pads that I had in the trailer, and then looked at them in more detail later:

The outside pad on the passenger side was badly bent at the bottom.  Andrew Kidd suggested checking the calipers (Dynapros) for sticking pistons, saying that his experience was that they only lasted a couple of race seasons.  I tore them down with the idea of replacing the seals but found this:

Not a great photo, but you can see the edge of where it's chewed up the piston bore.  All four pistons on both calipers were like that on the same edge (I forget if it was leading or trailing).

The pistons had a bunch of aluminum deposited on them.

At ~ $150 each I just bought a new set and chalked it up to tracking a 300+ rwhp Miata being an expensive hobby.  This isn't a problem most people are likely to encounter, my car makes a lot of power, is relatively heavy as Miatas go (2450 wet, no driver), I run it at a track that's notoriously hard on brakes (Laguna) and my with my driving style I brake too much (trying to fix that).  The Wilwoods are a great value, but there's a certain amount of truth to the saying that you get what you pay for.  If I were still using the Miata as my primary track car I'd be looking hard at other brakes options at this point, but the question is kind of moot because I've mostly switched to tracking an E46 M3 instead.  

I haven't tried stock calipers with a turbo in a long time, but my experiences weren't good there.  Lots of pad taper due to caliper flex, and the rotor was too small to serve as a decent heat sink.  This was with the 1.8 brakes that came with my car, I had already gone to a Wilwood BBK by the time the Sports were an option.

There should be no side loads on the pistons.

I wonder if this is a problem that could be solved with differential bore sizing, since the leading edge of the pad will naturally wear more, and this will cockeye the piston in the bore.  IIRC all common Brembos have differential bores.  (I'd like to say 38mm leading/42mm trailing is generic)

I don't know if Wilwood even does differential bore sizing until you get into 6 piston calipers.