A while back, I drove an AP2 Honda S2000 back to back with a 2016 ND Miata / MX-5. However, conditions for those drives weren't exactly ideal- they were on cold days, with salesmen in the car (at least for the first half of the S2000 drive). I was also focusing on sports car driving dynamics and didn't pay much attention to how they drove as regular cars. Yesterday and today, we've had absolutely beautiful weather and I wanted to remedy my previous methods and see if I could get a set of keys to both and test them out without any added weight (passenger/saleman) in the car. I succeeded, and in the process, I might have reversed my previous thoughts about these two cars.
Disclaimers: I'm at 5200 ft elevation. Cars are a lot slower up here. I took both cars on separate mountain roads, getting as high up as ~7300 ft elevation.
I took the S2000 down Deer Creek Canyon Rd, which consists of a long string of S-curves, with a bit of elevation change and I exited on a road that had some fairly high speed sweepers. One of my favorite roads and just a beautiful drive!
By contrast, I took the ND Miata both up and down Lookout Mountain. There are some more moderately high speed sweepers headed up Lookout Mountain, but coming down is essentially a roller coaster ride of 180 degree hairpin after hairpin, with considerably more elevation change (both up and down).
The cars were taken on different mountain/canyon roads due to their different originating locations. In my opinion, Lookout Mountain seems just a bit more narrow and involves a bit more wheel work, but both are great roads that helped me get a better impression of these 2 outstanding roadsters!
The S2000 in question was a 2006 model- AP2 DBW. It has 59k miles on the ticker and appeared to be in decent shape. However, as per it's Carfax history report, it sustained an accident in 2008. It also had an aftermarket exhaust that was a bit louder than stock, but never really droned or bothered me. I didn't notice any further mods to this car. This S2000 also seemed to maybe pull ever so slightly to the right; but maybe that was just in my head?
The ND was a Club version with the Brembo/BBS package. It had almost 100 miles on it. I have a feeling that the dealer might have put good gas in it (vs the last one I drove that I was told was filled with 85 octane), and the ECU was likely starting to compensate for my elevation. I say this because it did in fact feel just a bit stronger than the last ND I drove.
For reference, I'm about 6'2” 210 lbs and I fit in both cars just fine. Neither is what I would call “spacious”, as it's a tight fit, but I never really felt uncomfortable in my ~1 hour long test drives.
I'll break this down by my thoughts on each in subjective categories:
-Interior. Both interiors felt solid, but there's no doubt the ND's interior feels more modern. The ND's interior also feels livelier, with the red interior body panels (matching the beautiful red exterior!) really brightening the car up. The S2000's interior is more plain by comparison, but has held up very well for a 10 year old car. I won't go into infotainment systems, as it's clearly not a fair fight, with the ND Miata being a 16 year newer chassis/design. I will say that neither has an audio system to write home about.
The seats in the ND Miata are much better than the seats I found in the last NC Miata I drove, but I would still give the nod to the S2000's seats, as I preferred the bolsters and design/fitment in the S2000. However, the ND has an advantage of coming with cloth seats in my book, as the black leather seats in the S2000 resulted in my back sweating like a whore in church!
The seating positions were different, as was the interior space. My thoughts, based on my larger frame:
-Headroom: With the top up, the S2000 has more headroom, by what feels like at least an inch. With the top down, I think the Miata's windshield is actually a bit taller, by about ½ inch or so. However, the ND's windshield comes back further, closer to your forehead. This took me some time to get used to, as it initially felt like my face was very close to the top of the windshield.
-Legroom: I think the S2000 has deeper footwells, but I didn't really need the extra space/distance. The ND's wheel tilts, resulting in more space between my thighs and the steering wheel (at least an extra inch). Both foot-wells are fairly narrow, with the edge going to the S2000 having more space. My biggest problem with the ND's interior is how far the window control panel sticks out of the door- it really jabs into my left leg during hard cornering. I honestly think I would use a knee pad for my left leg for ND Miata canyon carving in the future!
-Shoulder room: The S2000 probably has a slight edge here, but let's be honest- they're both fairly narrow sports cars! I have broad shoulders and fit into both of them, but someone wider than myself might not.
-The ND Miata has a lower door sill, the perfect height for me to rest my left arm on while cruising! The S2000's door sill seemed just a bit higher. This is important to some people and something I didn't notice the last time I drove both of them as I had the windows up and the heater going!
I fit inside both of them, and was able to become fairly comfortable. Overall, after playing with the controls, I preferred the ND's more modern interior, but the S2000 has aged pretty well in my opinion.
-Exterior styling. This is incredibly subjective. I've always thought the S2000 was a good looking car that will age timelessly. With that said, there's no doubt that I'm more attracted to the ND's more stylish looks- especially in red with the Brembo/BBS package and black exterior trim pieces! The S2000 will still look good in 20 years, but I think the ND looks good enough to warrant an Italian badge on the front of it!
-Engine. Let's be clear here, the S2000's engine is endowed with a good bit of motorsports technology, whereas the ND's engine was plucked out of an economy car. There's no doubt, the S2000's motor is a gem and an absolute pleasure to rev out to it's 8000rpm (or 9000rpm in AP1) redline! In the ND? Meh, it lacks character, but gets the job done.
With that said, the last time I drove both of these cars, I didn't notice much of a difference in low-end torque. This time, I spent more time at stop lights and I think the ND Miata does in fact have a low-end advantage. There's no need to rev the ND out to get up to speed, whereas the S2000 needs to be revved just a bit more in light to light traffic in order to not get smoked by minivans.
Neither of these cars are “fast” per se and both would get mauled in a straight line by my daily driver (2016 VW Golf R 6MT). However, they're both just quick enough to be fun, and their short wheelbases make them feel like they're going faster than they actually are. In 1st/2nd gear, I think they're fairly evenly matched, but as the S2000 hits VTEC in the upper portion of 2nd gear, I think it would pull away from the ND without too much effort. The trade-off is that the ND actually feels just a bit peppier around town. In my opinion, the ND is really in need of bolt-ons and a tune to wake it up.
-Transmissions/drivetrains. They both having amazing gearboxes! The shifters are incredibly intuitive and have a great, positive, mechanical feel. Never even came close to missing a gear! They both have very short/aggressive gear ratios that make them a real pleasure to row! For years I've said the S2000 had the best gearbox I've ever driven; and if that's true, then the ND is a close 2nd place, but really, we're splitting hairs here. They're both just outstanding!
The clutch on both is fairly easy to work, but the S2000's engages just a bit higher and more abruptly. Not bad at all, but just different than what I'm used to. By contrast, the ND's clutch is incredibly easy to use- just hop in the car and it feels like you've been driving it for years!
The new ND has had some problems with the durability of it's new gearbox, which is a shame, but according to the Intarwebs, the ND just received new gear part numbers as of 9/5/2016, so it sounds like Mazda has addressed/is addressing the problem.
-Suspension. Aka, the low point of the ND. Don't get me wrong, the ND's suspension works just fine and soaks up bumps in the road without a care in the world; I just think there's too much body roll for a dedicated “sports car”. If I buy an ND, the stock springs/dampers/swaybars would likely go in the trash within weeks of buying it.
Don't misunderstand me- I had a great time pitching the ND around on the mountain, I would just prefer less roll and more control. In stock form, you really have to trust the ND in my opinion. Pitching it into a corner, it leans, but eventually sets itself on the bump stops and goes through the corner with plenty of grip; but there's a split second where the leaning suspension can feel disconcerting, until you get used to it. It took several corners in the ND before I started to get comfortable with it's movements and really started to have some fun.
By contrast, the S2000's suspension is stiffer and results in more control through the corners. However, there was still just a bit of movement to be found in quick transitions, which is something I didn't notice in the last AP2 S2000 I drove.
Both of these cars are an absolute blast to pitch around, they just feel very different! The ND is 500 lbs lighter, and you can feel it! A couple of times I misjudged a corner in the ND (I drive Deer Creek a LOT more than I drive Lookout Mountain), but the lightweight nature of the ND made it easier to correct my mistake mid-corner- it was apparent that you're fighting less inertial movement in the Miata.
In a perfect world, I would love to see the ND's lightweight-feeling nature combined with a stiffer suspension.
-Steering. They both have electric racks that couldn't hold a candle to the level of feel & feedback that my old NA or NB Mazdaspeed Miata had. With that said, they both have quick racks that are fun to saw away at! I would say they both have good turn-in, if it wasn't for the delay caused by the ND's soft suspension. I quickly learned to start turning the ND's wheel just a split second sooner to account for the body roll. The ND's wheel is just a bit lighter, which is a pro and a con. Overall, I preferred the slight amount of extra heft that the S2000's wheel had.
-Brakes: I gave both car's brakes a workout this time! Especially the ND's Brembo's on the steep declines of the mountain. I'll come right out and say it- the ND's Brembo brakes felt better and seemed to have more stopping power. They were easier to modulate and stayed consistent. The S2000 had a very stiff pedal and required a lot of effort to scrub speed. The Miata's brakes just felt more confidence inspiring. With that said, I have no idea what kind of pads the S2000 had, or the state of it's fluid, ect. This isn't necessarily indicative of S2000 vs ND Miata brakes, as there could be some other factor there (worn pads/fluid, ect), but I'm just sharing my thoughts on the differences between these 2 cars in particular.
-Pedals: Like pretty much all Miata's before it, the ND's pedals are in a perfect position for heel & toe downshifts! Couldn't be much easier. The S2000 has a bit of extra space that requires some more thoughtful footwork, but my Golf R's pedals are also spaced fairly far apart, so I'm used to it and was able to rev match the S2000. S2000's pedal placement isn't horrible, but the ND's is much better.
-Around town. As I eluded to earlier, I preferred driving the Miata around town. It kept a grin on my face. The S2000 was also fun to drive around it, but the less strung out character of the ND was preferable. However, as long as you don't mind aggressive downshifts, the S2000 certainly had more passing power on the freeway. The ND was just fine in 6th gear on the freeway, and downshifting resulted in enough power to pass, but a bit more planning is needed vs the S2000.
-Mountain/canyon driving. This is a tough one, but I would say the S2000 wins here. Hearing that engine resonate off of the canyons at 8000rpm is nothing short of magical and you can't get that kind of audible sound out of the ND! You have to work hard to keep the S2000 on boil, but it's very rewarding. The lack of body roll/movement also means that the S2000 feels more confident being pitched into corners.
By contrast, the ND is very light and feels light. It feels tossable and brings a smile to my face. There really is a connection between the ND and the driver, as it does feel like an extension of your hands & feet. It's just too bad that the connection gets just a bit too filtered by the soft suspension at times. The engine isn't overly powerful, but the short gearing helps to keep it pulling for the most part.
The ND felt a bit underpowered on steep up-hill grades at 7000 ft elevation (yes, most cars do!). However, on the steep down-hill grades it had plenty of power, haha!
One of the best things about both of these cars is that their limits are so attainable by ordinary drivers! I've driven some very fast cars on mountain roads over the years, and some of them have limits that are so high that you can't approach them on the street, while maintaining a valid driver's license.
Then there's other cars like my MK7 Golf R that is easily faster than both of these cars, while still having levels that are attainable by mere mortals. However, while my Golf R is a wonderful daily driver, it never connects you to the road and brings such a big smile to your face like these 2 cars do! I suppose I'm just a roadster fanboy!
In a nut-shell: “it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.”
Which would/will I buy? After my most recent test drives, that is a very difficult question to answer.
I think I'm now leaning towards the ND Miata, but I honestly don't think a person could go wrong with either one of these cars.
Out of the box, the S2000 is the more fun car to rag on in the canyons (albeit not by a ton). However, the S2000's engine is pretty much tapped out from the factory, unless you spend lots of money on boost. That isn't a bad thing, it's just an observation. By comparison, the ND is proving itself to have quite a bit of potential left in it with simple bolt-ons and tuning, which should help to close the acceleration gap between these two in NA form. Boosted is an entirely different story.... I heard a few companies are working on superchargers for the ND... I suppose we'll see how the new gearbox in the ND holds up.
Same story with suspension- I prefer the S2000's suspension out of the box, but with the ND weighing 500 lbs less, I know that a set of springs/dampers/sway bars would change the entire character of the car for the better. On equally stiff suspensions, I have a feeling that I would prefer the much lighter car.
Again, I think both of these cars are great and have nothing but positive recommendations for either of them!
I had a great time subjectively “testing” these cars and I'm looking forward to likely re-joining the Miata community in the not too distant future!
Cheers!
-Brandon
P.S. I took a quick photo of the ND at the top of Lookout Mountain today. Don't mind the fact that it probably needs a bath and has a demo plate in the front windshield. :)
