I don't really consider any of these sane options, so I'm going to use this as an excuse to post wagons I like.
Fozzy XT
9-3 Aero Sportcombi, turbo V6 6 speed!
9-5 Aero, turbo 5 speed. I think actual Saab motors and not GM ecotecs?
Manual swapped IS300 Sportcross?
LeonV said:@Adrian_Thompson sounds like a pretty good deal! How do you like the space and comfort of the V60, as opposed to your past vehicles?
That's tough to compare. This is the first sedan/wagon we've had in forever. Most of our cars are either at the smaller sporty end of the spectrum (Mustangs, Boxster, Volvo C30 hot hatch) or full on SUV's (Explorer, Flex, Edge etc.) I'd say interior room is easily on par with an Edge, not as much as an Explorer. I'll let you know by the end of the month as we're about to take 5 people, myself, my wife, my 80 year old mother, our 5'10" youngest daughter and our 5 year old grandson to Florida in it while towing our camper. That will be the ultimate test. It's at least big enough that we're not trembling in fear...yet.....
I have an 11 Outback 6 speed manual with 98k on it; I've used it off road, doing intructor training on a wet track and haul all sorts of Datsun parts with it. I know yours blew up but frankly I'd find another one with a manual. As I also have two race cars I don't care that it's not the driving experience that some of the euro equivalents are. For me the extra expense is not worth it.
I looked at Mazda 5s but found them a bit boomy on the highway.
@fatallightning FXT is cool but my wife will deem it too old. I had a conversation with her this evening and she said anything more than 10 years old is too old. She doesn't know what's good for her... :D
The Saabs are cool in theory and I haven't really spent any time in any but as I understand it, they were fairly GM-ified by then (cheap interiors, poor build quality). I'm not against looking if one pops up although they seem few and far in between.
The Sportcross is unfortunately too small. I've spent some time in an IS300 sedan and was not particularly jazzed about it. It was an auto but the motor felt sluggish and the steering had as much feel as a plunger in a churn of butter.
@Adrian_Thompson I wish you luck sir! Let us know how it goes.
@Tom1200 funny you say that, a manual '12 Outback just slipped through the cracks due to me being out of town. My wife also misses the Outback very much and tells me it's her turn to pick the car, given my recent picks where somewhat poor. By her standards. If we do get another one, it'll either be a 6-speed or the 3.6R.
Still curious whether anyone's got experience with an '09-'11 A6 Avant 3.0t? I may go look at one this weekend.
I did not read the whole thread so sorry if I missed a talking point that would make my suggestion a non starter but what about the Buick Wagon. I think they are being discontinued so you can probably get a new on for a really good deal and I really like the look of them.
I also think the Buick looks good..............I think it may be an Opel.
@LeonV I was looking at Crosstreks; we we're getting out of the car and when my wife shut the door she said "kinda tinny" Shortly after that I found the 6 speed Outback, it lacks the oomph of the 3.6 but I hate automatic transmissions in a daily and so I'm content with the trade off. It handles decently and drags all my stuff around, it's one of the few "logical" car choices that I've really been happy with.
Oooh, wagons!
Disclaimer, my daily driver is a 1986 Audi 5000CD quattro Avant, so I may be a bit biased and/or have developed a tolerance that I'm unaware of regarding old Audis.
I see you may be softening regarding said Audis. Have you looked at C5 S6 Avants? It's an Allroad without all the stuff that breaks. Well, except maybe the transmission. If you can find a correctly manual swapped one, jump on it! Theyre getting kind of old, but IMO ageing very well. About the transmissions, the 5-speed auto reputedly had lifetime fill oil. This turned out to be a lie. Apparently, if the transmission fluid was changed at normal intervals, problems became unlikely to develop. So, service history, etc, etc.... like with any car.
The Mrs and I have been going through a long decision process on what wagon to get to replace her 243k mike Mazda3. We looked at about everything, settled on a Mercedes E400 and are shopping now. It just is so good at everything. Jag drove a bit better but the interior was a let down, Volvo didn't drive very well comparatively, didn't want the Buick, Mazda3 is too small, Panamera v6 is not very engaging, refuse to own a VW/Audi for a long term car based on past experience.
Did somebody say "Slim Pickens?"
@bradyzq hello fellow HybridZ'er! I've considered the C5 S6 and thought long and hard over some of the manual-swapped ones I've seen. That era of Audi scares me and it'll be an instant veto from the wife, I almost guarantee. I learned to drive stick in an '89 Audi 100 so I do have a soft-spot for the older stuff. I'm bummed because the sweet '11 A6 Avant I found locally is already gone, I had just returned from a work trip and was looking forward to taking a look.
Also, how can you not post up a shot of that 5k quattro!
@Sonic I bet that's a fantastic choice but I don't think I have the budget to even look at the moment. Going to have to save my pennies for the E63, as soon as it depreciates to less than a house down payment. *fingers crossed*
@Red well done, that's exactly how I feel. Except the bomb in this case is cool station wagons.
Taken yesterday. It's an awesome winter car!
This one shows a bit more actual car.
Mercedes R class?
An R63 will probably be 35k plus. It is more or less holding it's value but you're paying almost 30k for it's AMG-ness, considering you can get a really decent R500 for ~7-8k and in real terms it's 70-80% as good. I've driven a nice R500 with an AMG appearance package (nice wheels, bumper stuff) and it's a pretty neat car (drove R63 too, it's neatER). They still have some expensive gotchas. Air suspension stuff, transmission stuff.. I personally didn't find it sufficiently compelling and ended up with a Cayenne, but if they had ever sold the R550 here (they didnt) I suspect I might have ended up with that as it is at least uncommonly fast and everything else about the vehicle i already liked enough.
Also, I've been in a TourX and it is one of the bigger wagons left out there. My main gripe with it was it's sheer plainness. It was very ordinary other than being unusual for being a wagon in 2019-2020.
Not usually the cheapest way to buy a car, but this might fit the bill, though it's old....
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1995-mercedes-benz-e320-31/
I know you thumbed-down VW but I'm really happy with my '19 Sportwagen 4MO. 6MT. It's as much a stripper as you can buy today. Cloth seats, no sunroof, no electronic aids. Still has cruise, Android Auto, heated seats. I got out the door for $22340 on a $25755 MSRP.
Historically, I don't modify my cars but I decided the Sportwagen was my opportunity for some fun and make the car I wish VW would have sold me. It's based on the VAG MQB platform, which means there is a never-ending list of things you can do to it both aftermarket and within the VAG ecosystem.
Turbos from the GTI and R bolt right up, look completely factory, and can double your HP with proper tuning. Worried about the clutch now? You should be but the Audi TTRS clutch bolts right up. Shift throw too long? Grab parts from the Audi S3 or pick any of a zillion aftermarket options. $200 gets you VCDS, an electronic interface to all the modules in the car, and the ability to make all kinds of modifications to the car's behavior as well as log engine params at up to 30Hz.
I put a Unitronic "1+" tune on it. The claim is +80hp, which sounded like complete nonsense so I did a test near my house, running 3rd gear from 2k-6k up a slight incline. Went from 12.9 to 9.8 sec! Yeah, the powertrain warranty is gone but they generally don't blow up and used engines are cheap anyway.
This spring the car gets wheels/tires, Koni SA struts & shocks, springs (from the R), new antiroll bar (also R), bigger front brakes (1" bigger, factory parts), and probably a clutch in anticipation of future nonsense. The hope is to add some sporty w/o ruining it.
As far as manual transmissions go...I've found the perfect solution!
Mid 2000s 5 series wagon (E60/E61) is what you want. The 535xiT (turbo!) could be found with a 6 speed manual. These can easily be converted into a rocket ship with a software tune.
~2005ish Legacy GT wagon our Outback XT is fast and comfortable...but this may be as much of a headache as your V70R though.
CTSV Wagon has a tiny fuel tank...fyi
One of the few new manual options available...VW Golf Sportwagen or Golf Alltrack w/6MT and AWD (I own one). Some dealers support APR tunes, so a big bump above the stock 180hp/200lbs torque is only a few hundred bucks away. Parts-bin engineering means you can use Golf R or GTI suspension, VW turbos, and other VW/Audi wheels w/relative ease. They're low $20s brand new.
Factory roof rails make a rack and cargo box an easy to add so your dog can have more room. The tunk floor is designed to be level w/the back seats when they're flattened. You can either utilize the exta storage und the floor (over the spare tire) or just drop the whole trunk floor by ~4 inches.
Limitations: I don't like the base model seats. They panoramic sunroofs are known to have issues. It's a golf with a larger trunk. They're small. It's tough to hide the economy car roots. The shift action is kind of awful....which can be fixed by removing the clutch delay valve and return spring adn adding a shift kit.
A 2005 Volvo V50 with 225hp T5 and AWD and a manual transmission, $3500
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/d/redwood-city-volvo-v50-t5-awd/7073135569.html
Everyone likes the E61.
The awesome part is that if you ever get to the point that you wanna convert it to RWD, you can either go with the software XDelete OR go all out and swap the front suspension, subframe, and power steering with a RWD model.
Edit: And the trans, oil pan, and driveshaft.
Hoondavan said:One of the few new manual options available...VW Golf Sportwagen or Golf Alltrack w/6MT and AWD (I own one). Some dealers support APR tunes, so a big bump above the stock 180hp/200lbs torque is only a few hundred bucks away. Parts-bin engineering means you can use Golf R or GTI suspension, VW turbos, and other VW/Audi wheels w/relative ease. They're low $20s brand new.
Factory roof rails make a rack and cargo box an easy to add so your dog can have more room. The tunk floor is designed to be level w/the back seats when they're flattened. You can either utilize the exta storage und the floor (over the spare tire) or just drop the whole trunk floor by ~4 inches.
Limitations: I don't like the base model seats. They panoramic sunroofs are known to have issues. It's a golf with a larger trunk. They're small. It's tough to hide the economy car roots. The shift action is kind of awful....which can be fixed by removing the clutch delay valve and return spring adn adding a shift kit.
If I was going to get another mk7 wagen it would be an Alltrack S 6spd and swap the suspension.
In reply to FuzzWuzzy :
Good info.
LeonV said:Wife shot down the TSX wagon but that might just be car search fatigue settling in. She likes the idea of an XC70 but I'm struggling to find any. Ideally, I'd find an '11-up XC70 T6 but it seems people really hold onto them. It seems like it could be a nice compromise between the Germans and the Outback but I've only driven an '08 3.2 (meh).
Here's one! https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ctd/d/san-luis-obispo-2012-volvo-xc70-t6-all/7071716217.html
I'm in the same boat (and in the same location, so post anything you find that you pass on!). I'll probably end up with a Flex, but it's pretty tough to find the ecoboost here for whatever reason. I'll also be the voice of dissent on the Mazda5 - ours is an auto, and I regret buying it every day I drive it (which is most days). I bought based on it being low mileage but it was not well maintained, and it's been one thing after another on it. I'm sure a well taken care of stick would be a different story.
May be a little bougie but we have a e350 wagon. Fantastic car.
seats 7, fast, so quiet and comfy, terrific in snow, Love it.
I started drinking at work early today and I don't remember the beginings of this thread.
But... the current V90 is hot as hell. I want one so bad.
@nimblemotorsports I did see that and it tickled my fancy! With the I-know-it-won't-work-for-us-but-what-a-deal thoughts clouting my mind, I mentioned it to a Volvo friend of mine and the enthusiasm quickly waned. Apparently it's just a heavier, dressed-up Ford Focus with a cheapo interior... :\
@cmcgregor I hadn't seen that one but Smith's always seems to have a T6 on hand. There was a black one there too a while back. The sad thing is, I was in SLO back in October and stayed a block from that dealer! Happy to share the findings of my daily trawls but it may be more spam than pork belly.
Thanks for your sentiments on the Mazda5, I'm not terribly enthusiastic about it to be honest. I've also noticed the lack of boosted Flexes and in general a lack of cars for sale that I actually want to buy! It seems a lot of them are keepers. Either that, or nobody bought any in the first place.
Here's a sweet find that I'll probably pass on, it's a 530 but optioned really well and has surprisingly low miles: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/d/mill-valley-bmw-530xi-wagon/7071579966.html
@OjaiM5 what generation of E350 do you have? I drove an '08 (W211) and was underwhelmed. There's a W212 down the street that I'm considering taking a look at.
The Merc R-Class is a hard pass for me, as it seems the Pontiac Transporter was their design benchmark. Thanks to all the wonderfully-detailed VW suggestions but I'm having a hard enough time considering Audis!
War-weariness is starting to hit. I may give up and end up with another Outback, it's an uninspiring utilitarian vehicle that checks enough of the boxes.
I don't know what's wrong with me. My standards have seemingly become almost impossibly high. I'm sure an Outback will do just fine (repeat x10).
In reply to m4ff3w :
I'm waiting for the luxo-car depreciation to kick in on those in a few years!
Duke said:In reply to LeonV :
...if only it wasn't a Mercedes.
What?
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