We are looking at a local 1984 Fiero for a crap can race car. It's already caged and seems to be a good deal. The issue is that we don't know anything about Fieros. Is it going to be reliable enough for crap can racing? Is it so slow that we'll be a rolling chicane? Any advice?
What's in it for an engine? What kind of modifications are done to the suspension? I was briefly involved in building one as a Chump Car but I think the idea has been abandoned. There are better experts here but up through '87 they had terrible suspension geometry and brakes. It's apparently as easy as swapping in the later suspension so maybe someone has already done it. Looking at the Fiero I can't imagine there's much room for a person after the cage is installed unless your average height or shorter.
I've been wanting a Fiero for years, but haven't bought one yet. Research has shown that it's not uncommon to swap in a wide variety of engines. Being a Chumpcar, you won't be hampered by trying to keep it street legal. Some browsing around on the internet should tell you all you need to know. Chevrolet small block powered Fieros are not uncommon, so that should take care of any reliability or speed issues.
This is the car/ad by the way:
I'm selling my 1984 Pontiac fiero racecar its a professional built SCCA racecar complete ready to run. It was raced It actually won 23 races and 3 championships in 08,10,and 2012 I'm retiring the car to someone who will enjoy it as much as I have. It has a complete rollcage and extinguishing lines all through the car for saftey it has 4115cc displacement and 11/1 gears It comes with loads of extras like fuel pump,water pump,belts,hoses,spark plugs,gaskets, ect..... all as secondary or replacement parts I'm only asking $1,800 obo for all of it the car is a must see
That looks pretty damn sweet. 4100cc? I've never heard of a 2.8 being opened up that far. Intriguing to be sure!
My only question is how are you going to race a $1800 car in a $500 class? The way I read it is you can buy a $500 car an add cage and other safety stuff but you can't pay $1800 for a car with equipment already in it...
AFAIK chumpcar says you only need to prove the car can be bought for 500. For Lemons all you need is a receipt from the seller saying you bought the car for 500 and another saying you paid 1300 for the cage.
i've seen them work and i've seen them blow up. a baffled oil pan would be a big robustness improvement IMO. geometry is not horrible, and brakes can be junkyard-upgraded inexpensively. be there. do that. write the book!
In reply to noddaz:
its about the value of the car minus the "free" items youre allowed. basically what is it worth minus the cage, brakes, wheels/tires? I suspect it wouldnt be worth much in that shape.
I cant answer the Fiero question, but the Lemons crowd is going to ding you hard. That thing is to pretty for Lemons. 
It's a 2.5L if it's running in ITB. I would add as much oil holding contraptions as possible. The suspension and brakes are fine. They were better on the '88's.
It also has the nose from a GT model, which wasn't available in '84. I'd like to see the interior pics, cause it might be my old car.
In reply to kreb:
My money says its a 4.1 cadillac motor
Thanks for the feedback folks. I'm going to do some more research on the car.
noddaz wrote: My only question is how are you going to race a $1800 car in a $500 class? The way I read it is you can buy a $500 car an add cage and other safety stuff but you can't pay $1800 for a car with equipment already in it...
As others pointed out, much like the Challenge, you can separate receipt for Lemons/Chump, AFAIK. Our first option was a e30 and the cage quote alone was $1600. So I feel fine about buying this car at $1800 and claiming it's a $500 car with a nice cage, brakes, tires, fire suppression, etc.
I wouldn't do any high speed racing without going to the '88 rear suspension. It's easy to do. Otherwise, ditch the stock solid rotors for vented (tons of easy options) and it's pretty sound. The stock 2.5 and 2.8 suck for track use, neither like high rpms for long. Sounds like the powertrain in this one isn't stock, so you should probably figure out exactly what it has. If it's the Cadillac 4.1 (of the 4.1/4.5/4.9 lineage, pre-Northstar), that thing is a turd. A 4.9 would swap in and be a lot better for nearly zero dollars, but it's still not a fan of high rpms. If it's supposed to be a 3.1 (far more likely) that starts a different conversation...figure out what you've got.
You should probably also clarify what SCCA racing it's been doing, and if it has a logbook. That's a lot of wins for a Fiero I've never heard of...I'm not exactly the master of the Fiero universe, but I feel like I'd have heard more about the car if it was killing the competition.
There are tons of upgrade paths on the Fiero that are well documented, but with that said they're not the easiest car to just hop in and go fast with. Like most mid/rear engine cars, they take a completely different driving technique than most are used to and aren't forgiving at the limit (relatively speaking).
Keep us posted!
Bryce
Toyman01 wrote: I cant answer the Fiero question, but the Lemons crowd is going to ding you hard. That thing is to pretty for Lemons.
Agree. Give it to Toyman and me to use for a few weekends and we will fix that 'too pretty' thing for you. 
Some have had incredibly spectacular failures and/or spent a LOT of time under the wrench on race day, but a few teams have managed to score regular Class C wins in LeMons.
A friend of mine has been analyzing winning cars in the two series using numbers from Chump and LeMons officials. If you want to geek out over stats, here's the relevant post which mentions Fieros:
http://www.therustyhub.com/2013/01/crapcanalysis-part-2-unlocking-lemons.html
Thanks folks.
Just to clarify:
Chump only requires documentation that you can buy a 84 fiero for $500.00 by collecting 10 adds off craigslist for running, driving cars SIMILAR to yours. If the engine is swapped, you have to also collect 10 adds from car-parts of the value of the stock engine and 10 adds from carparts of the swapped engine. Take the difference between these prices and add that to the average of the craigslist ads you gathered for the car. Add a "swap fee" of $75.00 and you have your TCv or total competition value.
For example, your average for the craigslist ads is $375.00 (this is your AIV or Average Internet Value). The average for stock engine on car parts is 250.00 the average for the engine going in is 355.00. You add the difference (355-250= 105). Take the AIV and add the swap difference (375+105=$480.00) Next, add the swap "fee". $480.00 + 75.00 = $555.00 would be the TCV in this case.
Most likely that is not a $500 car (if it is swapped) for Lemons or Chump.
I would think that Lemons would give you laps the first time around. After that, I would think that it will do bad enough that they will put you in class B or C with no laps.
Rob R.
According to the seller, the motor isn't swapped. It has been bored out though. Not sure what math he is using to get from the stock motor displacement to the new, claimed displacement.
My team has been running one for a few years now, maybe 7 or 8 races total. We rebuilt the stock V6 before the 1st race, and are now on rebuild number 2. The stock brakes need help, we are running Corvette brakes up front. Once it is stripped down to racer status the stock suspension will sit up like a 4x4. We are now running the heaviest springs that fit the perches that could be found in the junkyard, cut to give the proper ride height. Make sure the cooling system is in perfect shape, and upgrade it if you can!
dyintorace wrote: According to the seller, the motor isn't swapped. It has been bored out though. Not sure what math he is using to get from the stock motor displacement to the new, claimed displacement.
Guessing that's a typo. More likely to be 3.1 liters, not 4.1.
Alan Cesar wrote:dyintorace wrote: According to the seller, the motor isn't swapped. It has been bored out though. Not sure what math he is using to get from the stock motor displacement to the new, claimed displacement.Guessing that's a typo. More likely to be 3.1 liters, not 4.1.
Ah! I bet you're right. That makes much more sense.
If it is really a 1984 it doesn't have the original engine, which was an Iron Puke (which is what they always did with their internal components if revved at all high) and that engine can't be opened up that big.
It is probably a 2.8 V6 which becomes a 3.1 by the simple substitution of the longer stroke 3.1/3.4 crank.
Handling much better in the 88 but OK in the earlier cars. Should be pretty reliable if the engine has been done properly - they don't like a lot of RPM anyway as the flow in the cast iron heads is only so so.
if it is still as-run in ITB, it's an Iron Puke. i googled "fiero engine ITB" and found this:
http://www.sccabb.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8459
so i'm guessing the reference to
4115cc displacement and 11/1 gears
is some garbled and poorly typed reference to the 4.11 ring and pinion.
You'll need to log in to post.
