Need old Honda help

1990 Prelude SI 2.1, (B21) 240k on the engine, as a favor for a friend i'm replacing the head gasket and fixing the failed bits. Finding lots of those on a 23 year old car. Owner researched the engine on the interwebz and discovered ancedotal issues with piston ring sealing due to the fiber reinforced cylinder walls of this particular engine, asks if the rings should be changed as well. I say, I could change the rings, but with such high mileage should really do the rod bearings and main bearings as well, if that is the case it's best to take the engine out to do a complete rebuild. I believe with the cost of a rebuild that it's better and cheaper to just find a good H22 or H23 and do a swap. Owner likes the B21, wants to hot rod it with cams and a turbo down the road. Car was in pieces when he got it, and the build is more of a rescue than anything else, of course funds are an issue. I'm of the mind to put it back together and pour some Restore in the crankcase to help the rings seat better and he can drive it till it dies, then maybe his funds are in better shape or he will be ready to move on (already lusting after other craigslist finds). What say the GRM collective? Unfortunately, i can't kill it with fire, it's not mine.

The B21 was a failed experiment by Honda in increasing the displacement of the B series by using an even longer stroke, and had such a horribly wrong rod/stroke ratio that they didn't last as long as normal, even with their low for a Honda 6k redline. When they needed a 2.0 B series for the CRV, they kept the 1.8 stroke and increased the bore, which was better but still not as solid as a B18.

Your friend should stop any ideas of trying to get more out of the B21. It isn't worth it. Either go for a stock rebuild and be happy he got so many miles out of that one, or swap in one of the many better motors that Honda made, though I have no idea which ones fit easily, as I never played with that gen prelude.

He wants to make it a track rat that's street legal. It's actually a pretty solid car, no rust to speak of. Just issues from years of mechanical neglect. It also has a bit of biodegradeable wiring that i'm having to deal with. He's taken out the air conditioning parts and wants to de-power the steering because he's concerned about the added weight and drag of the power steering pump.

h22 or 23.....[/discussion]

I've done a little more research, and the H22 swap isn't exactly low budget as the whole drivetrain is different, plus you have to go with the ECU to match the engine. A swap to the B20A5 that came in the S models is pretty much plug and play, and that engine has way more aftermarket support and with regular iron cylinder sleevs is more reliable. Now my thoughts are to either drop the oil pan and check the bearings, and if they look ok put new rings in the B21, or just flush the old oil and put in some of that engine restore to see if that helps the compression and he can decide whether or not to work with what he has or do a swap down the road.

H22 swap and be done with it.

Thats is actually a very nice and light car. With the HP from and H22 it would be a hoot to drive and would not need a turbo. Aftermarket turbos and trackrats dont always work well together in my opinion.

If you are removing the PS parts, do it while the head is out. Many years ago when I had one of those the PS line leaked right over the exhaust manifold, what a PITA that was to change!!! It travels all around the engine and from top to bottom.

J

Has the H swap really been documented in one of these? That motor has a hard time fitting under the hood of an EG Civic, let alone one of these.

Swank Force One wrote: Has the H swap really been documented in one of these? That motor has a hard time fitting under the hood of an EG Civic, let alone one of these.

I am sure it has. There are plenty of these swaps out there. You will need the H transmission as the the B tranny will not bolt up. The engine fits fine.

In reply to Swank Force One: It's been done, there was a guy who sold a mount kit out of his garage for awhile. He's on some of the Prelude forums. It fits, but you give up some ground clearance so if u want to be stanced or whatever it's not the way to go.

Slippery wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Has the H swap really been documented in one of these? That motor has a hard time fitting under the hood of an EG Civic, let alone one of these.

I am sure it has. There are plenty of these swaps out there. You will need the H transmission as the the B tranny will not bolt up. The engine fits fine.

IF i were to do this swap, i'd use an H2B trans setup anyways.

I really think it would be a hoot to drive with the H22. Almost makes me want to find one and do the swap myself, but I got enough stuff in my yard to work on. It would also satisfy the kids need to rev the snot out of it. Folks think just because something is a Honda then it's all V-Tech all the time and should just rev to 20k. He was complaining that it had no power in the higher rev ranges, well come to find out that this is the one Honda twin cam that is not rev-friendly, i think the redline is 6K.

That is not an old Honda.

I am pleasantly surprised by the oomph from the B21 powered Prelude I use as a Back 40 rat, and astounded by how much oil it goes through. Granted, it's basically just getting the dregs of whatever comes out of my street cars when I change it, but still...it'll burn a couple of quarts every 10-15 laps of the track, which is maaaaaaybe 3/4 of a mile.

Woody wrote: That is not an old Honda.

It's older than it's owner by 3 years, so it sorta qualifies

5th gen type SH get LSD too.

non-vtec F22A* from the 90-93 Accords.

Suckers are stout, make decent power, and dead nuts reliable. Huge power to be gained with cam swaps+increased compression. Intake flows 250+ CFM with a stock casting, exhaust isn't as good, but has TONS or material to port. 300+ CFM isn't out of the question. Factory blocks can take 400+whp/tq on upgraded pistsons/rods. Stock stuff is good to 300 give or take. Get them all day long with transmissions from a pick-n-pull for $250. For the boost route, DSM manifold/turbo pretty much bolts right on. Usually, they make equal hp/tq at very reasonable rev's. You can make B/D transmissions work with them, but it requires either an expensive adapter kit, or some homebrew know-how. H22/H23 heads can be added with little fuss, and F/H transmissions will bolt right up.

beans wrote: non-vtec F22A* from the 90-93 Accords. Suckers are stout, make decent power, and dead nuts reliable. Huge power to be gained with cam swaps+increased compression. Intake flows 250+ CFM with a stock casting, exhaust isn't as good, but has TONS or material to port. 300+ CFM isn't out of the question. Factory blocks can take 400+whp/tq on upgraded pistsons/rods. Stock stuff is good to 300 give or take. Get them all day long with transmissions from a pick-n-pull for $250. For the boost route, DSM manifold/turbo pretty much bolts right on. Usually, they make equal hp/tq at very reasonable rev's. You can make B/D transmissions work with them, but it requires either an expensive adapter kit, or some homebrew know-how. H22/H23 heads can be added with little fuss, and F/H transmissions will bolt right up.

Didn't even think of this, there are literally tons of these at the local pick n pull. I like this..

Stay away from the 94-97's F22B though. The VTEC is really VTEC-E, water jackets on the exhaust side interfere with good porting, doesn't flow very well, etc. I like F23's for their bottom ends and low-lift head flow, but for a good, cheap, easy build, it's hard to fault an F22A's. F22A6 is the pick of the litter.

Had a rommate in college with a 96 accord F22 non vtec sohc dsm turbo setup. Wheel spin monster but wasn't fast. Made 170 whp and like 240 tq. Almost what my Tdi makes.