Need some insight (enable me+tincan?+what car)

Backstory: I'm a recent college grad landed a decent paying job with no loans and living at home with the parents. I drive currently drive a 1994 celica st automatic with 170k miles, peeled paint, with not a straight body panel to be found. I would like to move on to a different car but I don't know what would be the smartest choice.

First question: What should I do with the celica?
I don't hate the car, and I love being able to park it anywhere and not worry about it. I know I won't be able to get any money of the car by selling it, maybe 500 max, or gift it to a friend in need, but it is reliable transportation. If i keep it as a DD and get a rwd roadster fun car (miata, s2000), I'm worried that insuring 2 cars would not be worth it and I might as well get more practical fun dd. Also I live in New Jersey where I might get 3 months of out a convertible, so I'm not sure if I would want to go the roadster route unless it was an NC with PRHT. The car I plan to buy will most likely never see the track (unless I keep it for another 10 years) and if I autoX it I don't really care about being competitive or not.

Second question: Tin can or something solid? Slow car or fast car? Do more solid cars equate to more boring? i.e. NB vs NC miata, integra vs prelude, e36 m3 vs 330i. I had tons of fun during the brief time I owned my integra until a tree fell on it, but I am wondering if I should get something more solid such as the prelude. Will a solid car be more boring to drive day to day? I do want a car thats not too fast not to slow aka fun on the street without getting arrested which I'd say mid to low 15s trapping 87-90ish.

Third and fun question: What minimally depreciating car?
I've considered all the grm favorites and some that are less liked. I would lean most towards a NB if I could keep the additional car insurance would be <200 a year.

GRM favorites that are ruled out:
S2000 insurance costs, theft
Infiniti G20 doesn't do it for me for some reason but i keep seeing a really clean black one at the gym
Focus PZEV 2.3 interior/resale seating position
Focus SVT reliability/interior (possible if EAP)
Celica GTS not completely ruled out. Looked at some dynos and they put out less than an integra LS out of lift, and resale might be an issue.
FR-S: I don't think i'm ever going to buy a new car unless it's for SWMBO.
Integra gsr: much more expensive than preludes in similar condition

Top considerations (with concerns/questions about each):
Integra base: not sure if i'd be bored with power later on and unsure if the road noise will get to me
5th gen Prelude: Gas mileage better than an e36? Alleged transmission issues? automatic tensioner needs to be replaced with a manual one.
e36 328i 4-door: Will I have to go fast to have fun? gas mileage?
e36 m3: too fast, mileage, insurance? NB Miata: leaning towards only having one car at the moment, but a lot of me wants to see what all the hype is about. Worried about top getting slashed as I work for a university hospital. (garaged though).
NC miata PRHT: too solid? full coverage insurance? Reading up on it people say it's better car than the NB/NA but not a better miata.

Sorry for the long post but I'm really quite lost at what I want and was hoping you guys with more experience could help me out. I essentially just want a fun, reliable dd, that can seat 4 with a low cost of ownership including depreciation. Budget isn't a concern as long as I wouldn't need full coverage, but cheaper is always better. Realistically I think the prelude fits my needs best at the moment but its weight is off-putting. I was complaining to myself that the TSX is too expensive and the integra may be too spartan(although i still kind of want an integra), and found the prelude to be middle ground. I appreciate any and all input including criticisms to my logic/though process. Thanks!

First off your Celica should be worth more then $500.00. I would say it is at least a $1500.00 dollar car if not more. Anything that runs is worth at least $1000.00 especially an automatic toyota, add $500.00 if it looks half way decent and has A/C.

As far as the other cars you mentioned I have owned several of them.

The e36 328i is a nice car, if you get a manual with the sport package you get 80 percent of the m3 experience with out the extra cost. Figure 24 mpg around town and almost 30 mpg on the highway. They are pretty fast as well I seem to remember car and driver running a high 14 in the quarter with one.

e36 M3's are great cars, it is what I drive now. Buy the nicest one you can afford because the maintinance can get pricey. I guess that applies to the 328 as well. They are hard to beat as a daily driver, they are fast, handle great, and get decent milege. My trip computer says 23 mpg in mixed driving. Obviously you will pay a premium over the 328i. On the other hand I don't see nice examples really depreciating a whole lot more, in fact I bet you will see an increase in price for a clean one in the next few years as they become harder to come by.

I owned a celica GT-S for awhile and it is faster then a base integra for sure. The motor feels like it has less torque then the integra, and the transmission is not as nice. You have to rev the piss out of it to get it to go anywhere. Handles nice, and the brakes are decent. I thought the interior felt kind of cheap.

The Integras are nice but it is hard to find one that hasn't been destroyed by a ricer. The GS-R's are great cars, they feel solid and the engine/tranny combo is a work of art. Keep the oil and the timing belt changed and they are darn near bullet proof. I would not say it feels any less solid then a prelude of similar vintage. It should get around 27 to 32 mpg. Faster then the GT-S, I ran a 14.4 in mine in college with a cold air intake. The hatchback will swallow an amazing amount of stuff.

In reply to pimpm3: I had an e36, and I would buy another in moment. but maintenance was a killer and i did about half of the work. not tneought time despie my skill level. I had an accord coupe and I really liked it. prelude mihg tbe a good option miata 3 most a year top down??? what don't you have ac and heat. you can get 5 mos if you use those. base integra. low cost lots of parts. make it handle, when the power gets boring ... turbo

pimpM3: So what you're saying is all these cars are good? . My celica I got for free and it has no paint on hood, clearcoat failure on the roof. And was hit on the passenger side fender/door/bumper. It however does have AC.

I do really like the m3, but it is rather fast haha. With maintenance isn't it just cooling system, motor mount, and rtabs(and other rubber bits)? Did the m3 s have reinforced shock tower mounts? Integra clean integra bases are not too difficult to find nor are clean preludes, but clean integra gsr's are impossible to find around me. If you could do it all again would you still end up with the m3? Also If you were me what would you do?

scooterfrog: As i am living at home the miata does not get a spot in the garage. De-icing it in the winter/snow will not be pleasant, but double wishbones, slick tranny, lightweight are hard to ignore. The prelude/gsr does stand out as the most well rounded of the group. Going turbo is more work and money then i'd like to spend on a DD, but I am considering a very mild cam(no valvetrain upgrade) if i get the integra base.

I smell...ms3. IF you're into NC territory, you can move over to an ms3. Walk all over any of the Hondas and take their lunch money.

RSX? and a Mazda3 is a very good choice, peppy, solid, can be had with nice interior trim at an affordable price, get the stick and it's fun, only place it falls down is the looks department...

fist gen mazda 6 v6 with a manual

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=07105&endYear=2009&modelCode1=MAZDA6&modelCode2=MAZDASPD6&makeCode2=MAZDA&showcaseOwnerId=7338345&startYear=1981&makeCode1=MAZDA&listingType=used&engineCode=6+Cylinder&transmissionCode=MAN&searchRadius=100&listingId=324950948&Log=0 like this one.

If you don't do your own maintinance the BMW's are expensive to own due to the cost of maintinance.

Have you considered a TSX with a 6-speed. It is a nice solid car that is reliable and fun to drive. How about a bugeye WRX, those are fun and are holding their value well.

You never mentioned how much you have to spend, I think that would help narrow down what is in your price range.

I don't think you mentioned a "bad" choice on your list. It's going to come down to your price range and how much work you're willing to do yourself. Give us a that info and we might be able to help you a bit more.

That said, I wanted to touch on the Prelude option. They catch a lot of flak for being heavy, but I disagree especially for a daily driver. They're so low and well balanced that they hide their weight quite well. I'm not sure you'd ever think they felt heavy unless you were going for an autocross trophy. I've daily driven GSR's for years and I kind of prefer the Prelude as a commuter. The extra half-liter or so of displacement makes them more fun on the street and the low-n-wide seating position just feels "special" compared to a lot of other machinery. What they lack compared to the GSR is any kind of back seat space, so if you're trying to haul 4 people around comfortably, I'd look elsewhere.

Solid is a very ambiguous term as used here..

If you're worried about money then the cost of insuring a 2nd car is almost NOTHING next to the up front cost of something like an s2000 or anything over 10k, really.

I like the Integra, Prelude, celica gt-s and e36 m3 ideas.

I dont think any of them is heavy enough that it seriously curtails spirited driving, especially if modded.

Qualifier on the Integra.. Honestly, i wouldnt pay the fanboi tax for a gsr ON TOP OF the fanboi tax for being an integra in the first place. If it was me (auto tech, own dozen cars, done a lot of swaps) i would buy a nice GS and do a swap on it before i tried to pay full price for a GSR.

In ~2011 I sold an 01 integra GS/5spd for $6200. That's crazy talk, but it was super clean and that's why it was rare. To get a car that clean + GSR, i shudder to think what it would cost.

I just drove a non-vtec 93 prelude and i liked it well enough even without the vtec. I think a 5spd 5th gen prelude is a cool car and id really like to drive one. It'll be faster stock to stock than a non-vtec integra by A LOT and will be right there with a celica gt-s.

That gen of celica is one of my favorite FWD cars of all time, so take that as you will.

Also, 14.4 in a GSR with an intake.. very funny.

Raze: I don't like the rsx you sit a little high compared to the older hondas and the suspension design is inferior. Also the type-s is expensive for what it is and has a 3rd gear pop-out issue. The mazda 3s is a lot of money for not that much more performance and space? It is a consideration though if i can get the right price.

KATYB: I did consider the mazda6 especially the 5door hatch. Double wishbones, practical, and good engine. but depreciation/gas mileage turns me off from them. Don't they suck down a lot of fuel for the power output? Also didn't you say you've replaced everything in yours? Yeah I dont want to buy a 12k car drive it for 50k and have it worth 8k.

Pimpm3: In regards to the TSX. I really like the tsx, but I'd want an 06 model and i'm not sure how the depreciation etc would be. If I were to buy a 10k one with high-ish miles I doubt i'd be able to sell it later with 150k for anywhere close to what I bought it for.

My budget is ideally ~5k but i'm willing to go to ~10-12k if the car is immaculate and won't depreciate much. I don't have a hard set budget, and am not in a rush since I have a DD at the moment. I don't want anything that would depreciate significantly after 5 years and ~40k. The NC miata was a choice for me since I saw some with 20k miles for 15k. I'm sure I'd be able to sell it later with 60k for something close to it.

Vigo: yeah I am aware that the 10-15k buy-in for a s2k is a lot But I doubt the price will go down too much. Insurance money is money i'll never see again whereas grabbing a decent car at the bottom or near the bottom of the curve. I won't lose over the couple of years.

Yeah, I'm not really looking at a gs-r because cleaner preludes are easier to find (and i can't find any )I'd be looking more at the base. The celicas I'm also worried about resale. If i pick one up at 100k miles I doubt i'll be able to resell it later as easily as a 140k prelude/integra/328i/m3.

No one believed I ran a 14.4 in my 1996 GS-R Integra back in 2000 when I ran that time, but I don't know why that is so hard to believe. I had a friend with a 1995 that ran a 14.5 with only an intake, my girlfriend at the time had a 1994 GS-R and she ran a 14.6 in hers the night I met her. I had a different friend who had a 1995 that also ran a 14.4. I had two friends who had Type-R Integras with Cold air intakes and they ran a 14.0 and a 14.1 respectivly.

All of the times were at Gainesville raceway so I am pretty sure there was nothing wrong with the track. There is no way it was a fluke time if the 4 people I knew with Integra GS-R's all ran similar times.

lnlds wrote: Raze: I don't like the rsx you sit a little high compared to the older hondas and the suspension design is inferior. Also the type-s is expensive for what it is and has a 3rd gear pop-out issue. The mazda 3s is a lot of money for not that much more performance and space? It is a consideration though if i can get the right price. KATYB: I did consider the mazda6 especially the 5door hatch. Double wishbones, practical, and good engine. but depreciation/gas mileage turns me off from them. Don't they suck down a lot of fuel for the power output? Also didn't you say you've replaced everything in yours? Yeah I dont want to buy a 12k car drive it for 50k and have it worth 8k. Pimpm3: In regards to the TSX. I really like the tsx, but I'd want an 06 model and i'm not sure how the depreciation etc would be. If I were to buy a 10k one with high-ish miles I doubt i'd be able to sell it later with 150k for anywhere close to what I bought it for. My budget is ideally ~5k but i'm willing to go to ~10-12k if the car is immaculate and won't depreciate much. I don't have a hard set budget, and am not in a rush since I have a DD at the moment. I don't want anything that would depreciate significantly after 5 years and ~40k. The NC miata was a choice for me since I saw some with 20k miles for 15k. I'm sure I'd be able to sell it later with 60k for something close to it. Vigo: yeah I am aware that the 10-15k buy-in for a s2k is a lot But I doubt the price will go down too much. Insurance money is money i'll never see again whereas grabbing a decent car at the bottom or near the bottom of the curve. I won't lose over the couple of years. Yeah, I'm not really looking at a gs-r because cleaner preludes are easier to find (and i can't find any )I'd be looking more at the base. The celicas I'm also worried about resale. If i pick one up at 100k miles I doubt i'll be able to resell it later as easily as a 140k prelude/integra/328i/m3.

yes ive replaced everything but that is not indicative of the car. that is indicative of me as a driver. i break stuff. alot of stuff. always have always will. ive also had mine for 9 years and 160000 miles. so. i will say its held up alot better than other cars i have owned during the same time span.

mpg... welll hmmm.... i now avg around 21 around town and 28 to 30 highway. stock it was terrible but useing a maf modifier to lean out the af without sending a light worked wonders (and for power too)

and i have a buddy who gets 32 to 33 highway with the 6spd auto.

How trying to find a nice 4 door teg ls, and doing a gsr swap, or a nice clean stealthy low boost turbo setup.

No offense, but you're going to be hard pressed to buy a car for $5-12k that doesn't depreciate much after 5 years and 40-50k miles. That's about the time even Miatas fall off in price hard. Add to that that after 5 years a new model of whatever you're buying has come out further damaging resale. I'd be realistic and choose carefully to minimize depreciation, but factor in TCO so look at parts and repair, labor, etc. If you can do your own repairs that'll help.

Raze wrote: No offense, but you're going to be hard pressed to buy a car for $5-12k that doesn't depreciate much after 5 years and 40-50k miles. That's about the time even Miatas fall off in price hard. Add to that that after 5 years a new model of whatever you're buying has come out further damaging resale. I'd be realistic and choose carefully to minimize depreciation, but factor in TCO so look at parts and repair, labor, etc. If you can do your own repairs that'll help.

^^^This. I think an e36 m3 might be close to the bottom of their depreciation curve with a buy-in for a good one under 10k. At least regular e36s are pretty much at the bottom of the curve and you can see what's happening with e30s with prices starting to head up for the good ones. A sedan version might be a little cheaper too.

I'll second the E36 M3 sedan....just make sure it is a stick.

As long as you maintain them, you'll run the body shell into the ground before the drivetrain fails.

Conversely, If you want a "sports car" the Z3M coupes have come down alot in the past year.....rare cars, but it still looks like a cock 'n balls driving down the road....

Yeah I dont want to buy a 12k car drive it for 50k and have it worth 8k.

Uhhh... you're not going to get around that one way or another.

This idea of not losing money on cars is a fool's errand if you actually intend to use the car. The only way to do that is to buy way lower than it's currently worth, and even that is no guarantee.

Case in point.. in early 2010 i bought a 2006 dodge magnum in perfect condition w/77k miles for $4500 when it was worth ~10k. Fiancee wrecks it, get no insurance money, now it's worth $4500. Maybe a little less, now. E36 M3 happens. You have to be prepared to lose. Insurance companies are made of the satan, so dont feel like you CANT lose just because you're carrying full coverage.

On the upside, that integra was bought for 5k (i would have been a lot happier at 4) and driven for 20+k miles before selling for 6.2, but that is not an easily repeatable thing. Also bought a nice S80 for 5k that i think would still sell for almost 5k 40k miles later. Ive made lots of money buying broken cars and fixing them but in order to not lose money on a newer car that's worth thousands of dollars you really have to have all your ducks lined up.

Ive owned nearly 50 cars now and ONLY still have 12-16 depending on how you count (oh lord) so i guess i speak with the experience of having 'sold' over 30 cars.

If you buy in the 75k mileage range, I could think of a few cars that wouldn't depreciate much at all:

FD RX7
NSX
Supra
(all 3 of those will be out of your price range)

Z32
2nd gen MR2
Integra
very clean E36 M3
already-modded early 90s Civic
already-modded miata

There are many many cars that could be purchased, driven for 50k, then sold for little to no loss, but they aren't exactly in the "spirit" of this thread.

I do wonder about RX8s though. You can buy an early one for $dirt, its hard to imagine it getting any worse.

lnlds wrote: GRM favorites that are ruled out: S2000 insurance costs, theft

Everyone says this, but my s2000 is cheaper than my E36 328i to insure, and similar to the V70R. Not sure of the exact numbers (just got a renewal in the mail). Its the cheapest of the three when you factor in the money I save suspending collision and liability coverage from late November to April.

lnlds wrote: e36 328i 4-door: Will I have to go fast to have fun? gas mileage? e36 m3: too fast, mileage, insurance?

My 328i with a $50 intake is only about 25whp down from a typical stock M3, so if the M3's too fast... Mileage on the 328 isn't too bad, I got around 25 in mixed driving, 31+ highway, until I put an M3 diff in it. The shorter ratio brought me down to 23ish, but I would do it again anyway.

A 328 with an upgraded suspension (they pretty much all need replacing at this age anyway) will be 90% of the fun of an M3 for 50% of the cost. You won't get as much attention in it, though most people here would argue this is a good thing. It also probably won't hold value or appreciate like an M3 might.

lnlds wrote: Vigo: yeah I am aware that the 10-15k buy-in for a s2k is a lot But I doubt the price will go down too much. Insurance money is money i'll never see again whereas grabbing a decent car at the bottom or near the bottom of the curve. I won't lose over the couple of years.

My '02 S2k (purchased July '10) has a KBB private party value of more than I paid for it. It's also dead reliable. I don't think I've ever had a cheaper to own car considering all costs.

I will also say that my S2K has been no more expensive to insure than any other full-coverage cars I've had recently.