So, I've been saving up for my next sporty/weekend/occasional track/autoX car for a while now. Pretty much ever since I sold my last weekend toy- my former 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata. I've driven a very long list of sports cars (mostly roadsters), most of them I had the pleasure of experiencing on my favorite local canyon road! After quite a few test drives, I had my mind pretty much set on getting an AP2 Honda S2000.
The last AP2 I drove through the canyon was just a riot to drive! It felt more confidence inspiring than the AP1 and I preferred the seemingly heavier steering feel over the last couple of AP1's I drove (I'm sure some people won't like that comment!). The only caveat is that prices for the AP2 S2000 seem to be going up and low mileage examples are starting to go for similar amounts of money as a new 2016+ ND Miata.
After doing quite a bit of exhaustive research, I've had my eye set on the later model 2006+ S2000. Mostly because in 2006 Honda implemented quite a few changes that included a new ECU that is easily programmable via Hondata software; which is something that might be appealing down the line. I decided to just spend the extra cash and get a nice, clean, 1 or 2 owner, low mileage (sub-50k miles) car. The only problem is prices on them keep going up and the nice, non-molested 2006+ cars are really commanding a premium. Here lately I regularly see the clean, un-modified 2006+ S2000's with low miles going for $20k-$25k.
Enter the ND Miata.
The new Miata (MX-5) starts at around $25k. However, for my purposes, I wouldn't want the base/Sport model, as the next model up- the Club- comes with a LSD, Bilstein shocks, bigger & wider 17x7” wheels and a shock tower brace. The Club also has a few other extra amenities over the Sport, but honestly those aren't big selling points for me- just the handling components. Granted, the Bilstein's would likely get swapped out for a set of coilovers down the line (maybe not?), but the other suspension components (mostly the LSD) would surely be welcomed. There's also the optional Brembo & BBS wheel package, but I don't think I could justify an additional $3400 for them. The Club starts around $29.5k. For arguments sake, by the time I'm looking to buy here in a few months, lets say I can talk a dealer down into the $27.5k range (cash).
At this point, we're talking $20-$25k for a 2006-2008 Honda S2000 or likely around $27.5k for a brand new 2016 Miata.
In terms of cash, I sold my old Mazdaspeed Miata a while back. I threw the money I made selling my MSM into my “next playtoy car fund” and I've been saving pretty aggressively for quite a while now and plan on purchasing the car cash, without touching my emergency funds, ect. To make sure I have plenty of liquid overhead, I'm also planning on selling my house in just a few months. If the market stays as is, I have about ~$300k in equity in my house, so worst case scenario, if I'm a grand or two short (on what I've saved towards the car), its not a big deal as I should be able to easily cover the difference.
As far as my plans for the next car, it will primarily be a weekend playtoy that I occasionally drive to work when the weather is nice. I plan on using it as a mountain/canyon road carver and occasional HPDE track day and autoX car. It will likely be modified to some extent, but will never be a full blown track machine; as I want to have it remain a street car that the little lady will still enjoy riding it!
Numbers don't describe emotions and no spec sheet can tell me how a car makes me feel. With that said, we are talking about performance cars and its probably valid to actually include performance metrics into the conversation. As such, here's the most relevant specs between the two of them (as per Car and Driver):
AP2 S2000 (2004 tested)-
-0-60mph= 5.5
-0-100mph= 14.0
-0-120mph= 22.3
-1/4 mile= 14.0@100mph
-Top speed= 150mph
-Rolling 5-60mph= 6.9
-Top gear 30-50mph= 9.7
-Top gear 50-70mph= 8.5
-Horsepower= 240hp @ 7800rpm (later rated at 237hp)
-Torque= 162 ft-lbs @ 6500rpm
-Curb weight= 2866 lbs
-Weight distribution= 49/51% F/R (slightly rearward weight bias)
-Skidpad= 0.88g
-Braking 70-0mph= 163 ft
ND 2016+ Miata-
-0-60mph= 5.9
-0-100mph= 16.2
-0-120mph= 28.9
-1/4 mile= 14.6@95mph
-Top speed= 129mph
-Rolling 5-60mph= 6.6
-Top gear 30-50mph= 8.4
-Top gear 50-70mph= 8.5
-Horsepower= 155hp @ 6000rpm
-Torque= 148 ft-lbs @ 4800rpm
-Curb weight= 2309 lbs
-Weight distribution= 52.4/47.6% F/R (slightly front weight bias)
-Skidpad= 0.90g
-Braking 70-0mph= 158 ft
Key points:
-The S2000 has considerably more top-end power.
-The S2000 has considerably more overall power (237hp vs 155hp)
-The S2000 has a better power to weight ratio that makes it the faster car overall.
-The Miata has a slightly quicker real world 5-60mph time, likely due to gearing and a more mid-range friendly motor.
-S2000 has slightly rear weight bias vs Miata's slight front weight bias.
-The Miata is a whopping 500+ lbs lighter.
-While the Miata has an advantage on the skidpad, I would laregly ignore skidpad & braking numbers based on how far tire technology has improved in the past 10+ years. They should be relatively equal in the handling department, with the edge likely going to the Miata just due to the huge weight advantage.
-Braking numbers are comparable with the edge to the ND, but again, tire technology has improved over the last 10+ years. I would expect the ND (especially with Brembos) to resist fade to a higher degree by virtue of lightness.
For the record, I'm not exactly a small guy. I'm around 6'2”, 210 lbs or so. As such, interior space is something to consider. I've owned a 1990 NA & 2004 MSM in the past and I fit in both of them, but it was tight. I was more comfortable in the last S2000 I drove (vs the NA/NB), but I haven't driven the new ND Miata yet. Due to my size, looking at interior specs is probably a good idea. Here's the interior specs:
S2000-
Front leg-room- 44.3”
Front head-room- 34.6”
Front hip-room- 49.8”
Front shoulder room- 50.7”
ND Miata-
Front leg-room- 43.1”
Front head-room- 37.4”
Front hip-room- 52.0”
Front shoulder room- 52.2”
I take those measurements with a grain of salt as they're not necessarily indicative of how a particular body type will fit in a car. For instance, most of my height is in my legs and I don't know how Honda measured the S2000's head-room, but it always seemed underrated to me. The S2000 supposedly has less headroom than my old 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata (34.6” vs 37.1”), but I didn't find that to be accurate at all. I drove both (MSM & S2000) back to back and with the top up I had more head-room in the S2000. With that said, it looks like the smaller Miata has a slightly larger interior in almost every way except for leg-room. I'll have to take one on an extended test drive to see how I really fit into it.
With all of that info in mind, here's the breakdown on how I'm seeing these cars right now:
S2000 Pros:
-More powerful engine.
-Tried and true platform. People know what works & what doesn't.
-They are appreciating in price, which is nice long term (also a con if you're planning on buying one!).
-More leg-room, which might come into play with my frame.
-High fun factor.
-Best shifting transmission I've ever shifted.
-Reliable.
-Good looking car in my opinion.
-Rear weight bias= car likes to rotate.
-I've always liked the driver-centric cockpit.
-Might be a collector's car one of these decades down the road; just speculating.
-Purchase price will likely be cheaper.
-VTAAACKK!! Pro and a con. But these engines are fun to wrap out to redline!
S2000 Cons:
-Its a used car, so previous care and maintenance can be hard to predict.
-Engine is pretty much tapped out in NA form without spending serious cash. With intake, header, exhaust & tune you might eek out an extra ~15hp or so, but that's just about it.
-Parts can be a bit pricey.
-500 lbs heavier than ND Miata.
-Requires valve adjustment every few years.
-Aero on them is minimal at best and they have no real underbody aero. I only mention this because I've heard people complain about lift at high speeds on track. I have no first hand experience with this, but its worth mentioning.
-They have a tendency to over-steer on track, although not as bad as the earlier AP1 (2000-2003) models. People frequently put large front and rear spoilers on them in order to improve track stability, which I would like to stay away from- Because Streetcar.
-Side-ways flat-bill hat crowd worships them, which can lead to a lot of unwanted attention.
-They're frequently stolen, or at least the seats are stolen out of them a lot. Granted, I garage my cars, but its something worth mentioning.
-May have to travel out of state in order to find a “unicorn” level car I'm looking for.
ND Miata Pros:
-Brand new car= no need to worry about abuse from former owner(s)!
-500 lbs lighter. This means that not only will the car have a slight handling advantage, it means that it will be easier on tires, easier on brakes and if you add power, every pony will go a bit further in increasing power/weight ratio.
-The more mid-range friendly motor will likely make the car more around-town friendly as well, which is evidenced by the car's slightly quicker 5-60mph time.
-The motor seems to leave quite a bit left on the table. With a header & tune it looks like people are seeing ~25-30hp gains out of them. As such, its straight line speed disadvantage might be mitigated pretty drastically with just a few bolt-ons.
-Better fuel economy- 27/34mpg vs 20/25mpg.
-The new ND is probably the better looking car in my eyes; although I like both of them.
-More modern car with more modern features.
-Smaller tires & brakes will mean its cheaper to feed long term.
-While unproven due to being new, it will likely be reliable in stock form.
-Slight front weight bias will likely make the car a bit easier to handle at the limit.
-The community! Seriously, after owning 2 Miata's (1990 NA & 2004 MSM) and being a part of more car communities than I care to admit over the years, the Miata community is pretty tough to beat!
ND Miata Cons:
-It will likely cost more money overall/higher initial purchase price.
-It will depreciate over time, unlike the S2000 which is now appreciating.
-Slower in stock form both in a straight line and around race tracks as per online publications I've read. I'm not sure about autoX.
-Lots of body roll in stock form, based on all reviews.
-4-lug wheels might limit wheel selection somewhat.
-There isn't much of an aftermarket yet.... but within 1-2 years I'm sure it will be huge.
-Direct injection is already starting to show signs of long term carbon build-up in the new ND. As such, removing the intake manifold and cleaning the valves will likely be a good idea every few years.
-I highly doubt the engine in the Miata will be anywhere near as rev-happy and fun as the S2000's engine. I'm sure the chassis, shifter and tranny will be great, but not the 2.0L NA motor that is found in the base Mazda 3 as well.
-While specs disagree, I have a feeling that the S2000 will likely have more interior space. I might be wrong though.
-New/unproven platform. Will likely take some time to see what does and doesn't work on them.
I still haven't driven the new ND yet, although I have sat in one.... I tried to drive one a couple times this past summer but they were sold out of all my local dealerships, so I figured I would wait for a few months for the hype to go down and dealers to stock the cars I'm looking for (Club with a manual transmission)... Here lately it seems like every time my schedule is open and I would have time for a thorough test drive we've had a snow storm! I will definitely be driving an ND once the weather here gets nicer, but as of now all I have to go on is the long list of reviews on the Internet.
I'm wondering if anyone on here has owned both, or at least has driven both thoroughly? If so, I would really enjoy hearing thoughts, opinions and recommendations on both cars! I'll eventually drive the ND and attempt to do so back to back with an AP2 S2000 (if possible), but I figured I would ask questions and do some research on both in the meantime. Any shared experiences with both cars would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!
-Brandon
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