The original question is ridiculous. My first car was a 66 Plymouth with almost 100,000 miles on it. I paid $300 for it when it was ten years old. It was a rusty, oil burning bucket of crap that I did a lot of work to keep on the road.
The newest vehicle I own now is 18 years old, and 165,000 miles on it, and I would leave on a road trip across the country tomorrow.
To remind everyone, OP is asking about cars from mid 2000s vs present. We all know about earlier cars so can stop patting each other on the back about that.
Caperix said:frenchyd said:Caperix said:I feel like in the last 10 years there has been an general decrease in longevity of engines. It should also he noted that the average power output has greatly increased in that time as well.
Emissions & fuel economy standards are requiring smaller turbo direct injection engines, but everyone want 300 + horsepower out of them as well. This leads to more stressed engines & higher failure rates.
Ev's may eliminate oil consumption & carbon issues but I don't feel like they will be as trouble free as some think.
Actual mechanical complexity of any EV is trivial. One simple Motor no cams, no valves, no pistons no connecting rods, no oil changes, no transmission.
Yes electronics but much of which can be "repaired" remotely while charging.
I've got a Boom box that's at least 30 years old and I listen to Cassettes that are older than that while working.
Every few years I take a broom to it and sweep the built up dust and cobwebs off. Maintenance?Rotary engines have less moving parts as well, but I don't think anyone would call them more reliable. Hopefully the electric motors will be reliable but how many alternators have you seen fail. I am more worried about the battery packs though.
I don't think that evs will stay without a transmission for long. Porche already uses a 2 speed. The battle for range & the rising cost off batteries will lead to more transmissions in evs.
You think a rotary has only 1 moving part? Those seals don't rotate? It doesn't have a water pump? A distributor? A clutch and transmission? What about an oil pump? What am I missing?
Regarding transmissions.? Trains don't use them. They are electric. Just a hybrid version. Been around a very long time almost as long as me.
Caperix said:I don't think that evs will stay without a transmission for long. Porche already uses a 2 speed. The battle for range & the rising cost off batteries will lead to more transmissions in evs.
We'll see more transmissions in performance EVs that are likely to be used on track, but for grocery-getters they're not coming back. They're not much help until you're breaking all the speed limits, and that includes being bad for range due to increased drivetrain losses and weight.
This thread is timely, lol.
One if the guys at work is getting ready to put a new engine in his Yukon thanks to what are most likely DoD-related issues, at 150k miles.
In reply to BlueInGreen - Jon :
A lot of old farts in iATN are of the opinion that nothing over 150k is worth fixing.
I know the DoD engines are a little hard on one of the cam bearings, but that is hard to diagnose because over 120k all of this architecture develops low oil pressure because the oil pickup O ring shrinks and sucks air. The oil pan gasket is usually heaving at this point anyway, fix two problems at the same time.
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
Yah the premise was that in general modern cars built about 18 years ago, from you reference, have most of the modern advancements in reliability, but not all the added complexity thats come in the last decade making them the peak of reliability, more so than something made in the last couple years.
BlueInGreen - Jon said:This thread is timely, lol.
One if the guys at work is getting ready to put a new engine in his Yukon thanks to what are most likely DoD-related issues, at 150k miles.
Thats exactly my point. The GM V8s have becoming less reliable since the addition of DOD, same with the Hemis, and the coyote gets less reliable with every new generation
BlueInGreen - Jon said:This thread is timely, lol.
One if the guys at work is getting ready to put a new engine in his Yukon thanks to what are most likely DoD-related issues, at 150k miles.
Those of us from 1st tier JDM land who own cars with 300-500K miles routinely, laugh at that .
Opti said:In reply to Streetwiseguy :
Yah the premise was that in general modern cars built about 18 years ago, from you reference, have most of the modern advancements in reliability, but not all the added complexity thats come in the last decade making them the peak of reliability, more so than something made in the last couple years.
I think its all relative. My 2002 RX300 (free car thread here) has 223K bulletproof miles. It will go cross country tomorrow. No leaks, no burning oil, every single thing work, cold ac, high heat. My 2021 Tacoma already hit 81K miles. Bulletproof so far, but I expect it to go 300K miles with general maintenance.
Hybrid Prius few years old with 250K miles are a common sight. Etc. We bought 5 2022 Toyota Corolla LE, for $21,000 a piece. We expect to see 250K painfree miles from each of them. No different than when we bought 5 1996 Honda Accord EX, and all we sold at 250K miles, running perfectly fine, with maintenance.
So I think your premise may be correct, but it is very manufacturer dependant.
mr2s2000elise said:Opti said:In reply to Streetwiseguy :
Yah the premise was that in general modern cars built about 18 years ago, from you reference, have most of the modern advancements in reliability, but not all the added complexity thats come in the last decade making them the peak of reliability, more so than something made in the last couple years.
I think its all relative. My 2002 RX300 (free car thread here) has 223K bulletproof miles. It will go cross country tomorrow. No leaks, no burning oil, every single thing work, cold ac, high heat. My 2021 Tacoma already hit 81K miles. Bulletproof so far, but I expect it to go 300K miles with general maintenance.
Hybrid Prius few years old with 250K miles are a common sight. Etc. We bought 5 2022 Toyota Corolla LE, for $21,000 a piece. We expect to see 250K painfree miles from each of them. No different than when we bought 5 1996 Honda Accord EX, and all we sold at 250K miles, running perfectly fine, with maintenance.
So I think your premise may be correct, but it is very manufacturer dependant.
Depends on the previous owner. I can name some Toyotas that become oil burning messes well before that mileage. Even had a 1ZZ that was consuming a quart every 200mi at 80k.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:mr2s2000elise said:Opti said:In reply to Streetwiseguy :
Yah the premise was that in general modern cars built about 18 years ago, from you reference, have most of the modern advancements in reliability, but not all the added complexity thats come in the last decade making them the peak of reliability, more so than something made in the last couple years.
I think its all relative. My 2002 RX300 (free car thread here) has 223K bulletproof miles. It will go cross country tomorrow. No leaks, no burning oil, every single thing work, cold ac, high heat. My 2021 Tacoma already hit 81K miles. Bulletproof so far, but I expect it to go 300K miles with general maintenance.
Hybrid Prius few years old with 250K miles are a common sight. Etc. We bought 5 2022 Toyota Corolla LE, for $21,000 a piece. We expect to see 250K painfree miles from each of them. No different than when we bought 5 1996 Honda Accord EX, and all we sold at 250K miles, running perfectly fine, with maintenance.
So I think your premise may be correct, but it is very manufacturer dependant.
Depends on the previous owner. I can name some Toyotas that become oil burning messes well before that mileage. Even had a 1ZZ that was consuming a quart every 200mi at 80k.
Of course. There are people who have Elise on their 3rd motor, mine has been perfect since day one. There have been people with CT200h with 250K trouble free miles, mine was lemon law'ed the first year. Of course anomolies exist. I was just giving my .o2.
There are members on this forum keep bad mouthing Lexus GX, whereas 99% of the owners of that truck around the world, will swear by how amazing it is.
The one that really sticks in my mind is the V6 that has a water pump that calls for something like 10 hours of labor to change. When the estimate for repair comes to over $2k between parts and labor and A/C service because that all has to come apart too, people balk, forget to keep the coolant topped up, overheat the engine, and then it's junk because the block warps and will need to be decked, and the engine has to be out anyway to do head gaskets because of the way the timing cover and oil pans come together (and friggin' external oil lines to the heads).
Owner problem? Sure. But so is going on long oil service intervals and letting the truck idle for a half hour every time you go into the store and then wondering why the valvetrain E36 M3s the bed, in a domestic V8.
And this is how people can break a crowbar in a sandbox 
You think a rotary has only 1 moving part? Those seals don't rotate? It doesn't have a water pump? A distributor? A clutch and transmission? What about an oil pump? What am I missing?
Regarding transmissions.? Trains don't use them. They are electric. Just a hybrid version. Been around a very long time almost as long as me.
Less moving parts is not 1 part, An ev is also more than the motor. There is an inverter/controller with its own cooling system, a battery with a heating & cooling system & a drive unit with some form of lubrication. Add in the infotainment system that like every new vehicle is over complicated & interconnected to everything & there are still plenty of options for failures.
Back to the original topic, I have worked on bmw's for 20 years now. They, along with other brands took a steep decline in engine longevity around 2010. Timing chains that previously could last 500k if maintenance was kept up started failing at less than 100k. This along with increased oil consumption & carbon build up would lead me to say they are less reliable than a pre 2010 car. At the same time when running properly they make more power & get better fuel economy than the older models.
In reply to Caperix :
I'm aware that some manufacturers have reduced their quality/ reliability while others have improved it. Domestically Ford and Chrysler have improved while GM has lost. ( Based on anecdotal comments) which as a previously loyal Chevy owner is a major disappointment.
Imports such as Jaguars and Several German brands seemed to have lost reliability as well. Fiat and Alfa based on casual comments are once again bringing up the reliability problems they seemed to have lost earlier in the century.
Yet I've yet to hear of serious problems regarding most EV's. Though to be fair most in my neighborhood tend to be less than 5 years old. Only one issue with an early Nissan Leaf has come to my attention. Solved by the owner leaving it at the dealership and purchasing a Chevy Bolt.
mr2s2000elise said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:mr2s2000elise said:Opti said:In reply to Streetwiseguy :
Yah the premise was that in general modern cars built about 18 years ago, from you reference, have most of the modern advancements in reliability, but not all the added complexity thats come in the last decade making them the peak of reliability, more so than something made in the last couple years.
I think its all relative. My 2002 RX300 (free car thread here) has 223K bulletproof miles. It will go cross country tomorrow. No leaks, no burning oil, every single thing work, cold ac, high heat. My 2021 Tacoma already hit 81K miles. Bulletproof so far, but I expect it to go 300K miles with general maintenance.
Hybrid Prius few years old with 250K miles are a common sight. Etc. We bought 5 2022 Toyota Corolla LE, for $21,000 a piece. We expect to see 250K painfree miles from each of them. No different than when we bought 5 1996 Honda Accord EX, and all we sold at 250K miles, running perfectly fine, with maintenance.
So I think your premise may be correct, but it is very manufacturer dependant.
Depends on the previous owner. I can name some Toyotas that become oil burning messes well before that mileage. Even had a 1ZZ that was consuming a quart every 200mi at 80k.
Of course. There are people who have Elise on their 3rd motor, mine has been perfect since day one. There have been people with CT200h with 250K trouble free miles, mine was lemon law'ed the first year. Of course anomolies exist. I was just giving my .o2.
There are members on this forum keep bad mouthing Lexus GX, whereas 99% of the owners of that truck around the world, will swear by how amazing it is.
I am constantly reminded that every brand has a service department and if you look in. There are always a few with really serious issues.
Plus what is a serious problem to one person is a trivial issue to another.
Part of my long life of recent vehicles is because when the light behind one button or control goes out I simply ignore it rather than have someone tear everything in the dash apart to replace the burned out bulb. I figure at 285,000 miles a few things won't be right.
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