So, Ford is putting a 3.0 L V6 diesel in an F-150. Looks like it will be available in only Lariat and up unless you're a fleet customer. I know a couple guys who would be interested in this, but of course pricing has yet to be announced. I've been excited before about diesels in American cars, like back when Jeep brought the VM Motori powerplant to its Liberty and Grand Cherokee, only to be underwhelmed in execution and reliability. Hopefully this time proves different.
The only problem I see with this is the power output. Yeah, it'll get better mpg than the ecoboost options, but for those who use their trucks heavily and want the extra power, the 3.5 Ecoboost still has significantly more power (and more torque too).
Seems like it's a hair better on paper than the EcoDiesel in every category. You'll have to pay a premium for it. I don't see very many EcoDiesels, so I'm not sure what the "take rate" is. It will be interesting to see how many of these Ford can churn out.
People have been wanting diesel half ton trucks forever, but I see fewer and fewer advantages in smaller platforms given the current state of gas engine tech. It will be interesting to see how it sells.
It'll cost more, diesels always do. And they usually give it back when you go to sell.
When I'm towing, I'll take a chugging diesel over a screaming gas engine any day. What RPM does the 3.5 make peak torque, and how flat a curve is it?
Is this a Ford derived/engineered motor?
Or is this similar to the VM Motori or Cummins type subcontract arrangement? I know the Ford/Navistar arrangement previously ended in disaster in the 6.0's in their heavier duty 3/4+ ton trucks (though they also produced the legendary 7.3's... so lots of finger pointing there).
Keith Tanner said:It'll cost more, diesels always do. And they usually give it back when you go to sell.
When I'm towing, I'll take a chugging diesel over a screaming gas engine any day. What RPM does the 3.5 make peak torque, and how flat a curve is it?
I just dug up the specs for the 2017+ 3.5 Ecoboost. 375hp at 5000 rpm, 470 lb-ft at 2500 rpm. I can't find a power curve for the 2nd gen 3.5 EB, but Ford says it's got 90% of peak torque from 1700 to 5000 rpm, so the curve should be pretty flat. The first gen 3.5 EB always felt to me like a diesel that learned how to rev. The second gen is probably pretty similar in that respect (haven't driven one).
Based on the similar torque numbers and significant extra hp on the 3.5 EB, I'd say the diesel vs the EB is probably pretty similar in terms of low to mid rpm pulling power, but the EB has more HP on tap if you wind the revs up.
I saw an ecoboost truck on the dyno. The torque curve was very flat and high but it does fall off in the upper rpms, as you'd probably guess by it having 95 less HP than Ft*lbs.
In reply to buzzboy :
With an 8 or 10 speed trans, it shouldn't be revving very high anyway.
Great. So people will buy a V6 diesel F150 and expect V8 diesel 250/350 towing and payload.
noddaz said:Great. So people will buy a V6 diesel F150 and expect V8 diesel 250/350 towing and payload.
It's a bit of speculation on my side of things, but I'd expect a new 3/4 or 1 ton diesel pickup to have way more tow capacity than most of us will ever need unless you regularly pull something that says "CAT" on the side of it and its yellow.
Towing a Miata in an enclosed trailer with some weekend equipment is probably the ideal load for a V6 Diesel Half ton. Especially if you do it every weekend, all season long.
noddaz said:Great. So people will buy a V6 diesel F150 and expect V8 diesel 250/350 towing and payload.
I dont' think so. Guys who want/need a 3/4 ton are still going to buy those. The power/capabilities of those trucks are downright ludicrous now.
That said, the payload on this "little half ton" is nothing to sneeze at. Per the Detroit News article I read... "the F-150 with the Power Stroke diesel can tow 11,400 pounds with a 2,020-pound payload capacity."
link: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2018/01/08/diesel-series/109259362/
In reply to xflowgolf :
So if it's has a payload capacity of 2,020 pounds, calling it a half ton is a bit of a misnomer.
These 1/2 ton diesels are a really intriguing niche for the hobbyist who really does "truck things" as there is less and less compromise in order to have a truck.
Close to 30mpg hwy unloaded? Optional luxuries and heated seats, and a roomy back seat? Still hauls 11K+ towing capacity? That'll handle most hobby racers needs. No need to daily something else to save on fuel. The diesel characteristics are great when actually towing, and the added cost of the diesel up front will likely be recouped on resale on the backside.
Only available in Lariat and above? Well damn, $50,000 easy. I wonder how much extra will it be. I know building one with the 3.5eb when you add the 3.5 you pay extra. A diesel xlt with nav would be great for me. 30mpg highway seems pretty attractive.
Ford said they'll have an electric hybrid f150 available by 2020.
Keith Tanner said:It'll cost more, diesels always do. And they usually give it back when you go to sell.
When I'm towing, I'll take a chugging diesel over a screaming gas engine any day. What RPM does the 3.5 make peak torque, and how flat a curve is it?
This is the previous-gen Ecoboost 3.5, but I'm sure the curve is similar on the new ones:
I may be a bit biased as there are currently two of these engines in my garage, but I love them. There's nothing peaky about them, they make excellent torque at low RPM and are much better for towing than the V8s I had in previous trucks.
Thanks. That's a yummy looking truck engine. Most of my gas towing is with Toyotas, either the 4.7 or whatever's in the current Tundra. The difference between that and my 6.7 is spectacular.
Had diesel half tons been available when I was shopping, I likely would have bought one as they would have matched my use at the time quite nicely. They're a great match to a single-car weekend racer. And honestly, they're probably as much truck as a 3/4 ton 15 years ago.
Now, it turns out that almost all my towing is with a two-car trailer up and down 10,000' passes at highway speeds on 1000+ mile trips, so I appreciate the extra stability and torque of the 3/4.
The need for such an engine to me is dictated by what you plan on doing with it. In my case the 3.5L EB F-150 that I have is the best solution for me. I don't drive the truck every day, in fact I haven't driven it since mid Nov. and the only reason I will drive it in the next week is to take it in for its annual emissions test which we have in some parts of IL.
The better MPG's of the diesel will pay off if you drive your truck a lot. The more miles you turn at 30 mpg's versus the EB 20 mpg's (What I can get.) would pay off the more miles you drive. What you will get towing of course is all dependent on what you're towing.
In reply to Erich :
Am I the only one who wants an in line six diesel??!!!!
Six in a row is the way to go!
You can have one of those. You just have to go up a size and stop by a different dealership.
yupididit said:Only available in Lariat and above? Well damn, $50,000 easy. I wonder how much extra will it be.
On the current Superduty trucks, the 6.7 diesel is something like $8 or 9k. I wouldn't expect the V6 diesel to be that much, especially if it's primarily available in higher trims but I can see 3-4k for the privilege of an oil burner.
I think the Ram EcoDiesel is something like $5k more than the Pentastar, so if you're looking for a market comparison, that may be a good place to start.
Yeah, I really don't see the need for this engine when the Ecoboost 3.5 is a better solution for 99% of half-ton truck buyers, but most folks don't buy based on need, they buy what they want. If they want a diesel, this is good news for them, and good news for Ford's bottom line. I say, have at it.
Tom_Spangler said:Yeah, I really don't see the need for this engine when the Ecoboost 3.5 is a better solution for 99% of half-ton truck buyers, but most folks don't buy based on need, they buy what they want. If they want a diesel, this is good news for them, and good news for Ford's bottom line. I say, have at it.
The need for this engine is to tell more EB 3.5's to customers. People will be drawn in to look, realize that they can have a EB 3.5 for $10k less and drive one home.
Not as if there's a pressing need to sell more trucks.
Keith Tanner said:You can have one of those. You just have to go up a size and stop by a different dealership.
I’d be happy with a Cummins but it would need to be in a regular cab short box 1/2 ton
In reply to alfadriver :
It might also give some of the "real trucks don't have gas v6s" crowd an enticing option since the only thing that says "truck" more than a v8 is a diesel.
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